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Thread: Phalanxes in version 1.1

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    Default Re: Phalanxes in version 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky View Post
    That's not true about how the engine handles combat. Length makes no difference ...
    That is not entirely true: units in phalanx formation (in game I mean) gain longer spears (even without "long_pike") that actually have a great effect on the performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    They made enough of a difference in that they allowed what had until rather recently been psiloi skirmisher rabble to check and hold even elite hoplites, though... which in turn allowed the Maks' formidable cavalry to do their part which was more or less the whole point.
    You are right: until recently. But this means absolutely nothing, because since Philip II this so-called rabble are in fact highly trained professionists of war, like the fancy Spartans that everyone seems to admire so much (I really wonder why..but this is enirely another matter) ; the so-called elite hoplites, on the contrary, were often no more trained than the nasty barbarians they despised so much, or at best they had 2 years of ephebate, really nothing compared to the skill of the pezethairoi

    The Iphikratean reformed hoplites were probably highly professional mercenaries (he had a lot of experience in commanding mercenaries and probably he was well aware of the importance of training, an awareness not so common in 4° BC greece)

    Last thing to add: the heavy armor had largely disappeared in 4° BC greece even among classical hoplites

    To reassume:

    on one side we have classical amateur or little trained hoplites armed with a metal helmet, a big shield, light armor and a classic spear

    On the other, firstly with Iphikratean, then with Pezethaeroi, we have highly trained professionist that had smaller shield but a longer weapon, more effective both in defending and in attacking. They were vulnerable to flanking? True, but no classical hoplite had enough training to outflank effectively without losing every resemblance of formation (that in RTW is negligible ; in RL IS VERY BAD)

    Were pezethairoi superheroes and was the pike a bartix weapon? NO, but on average they were largely more effective than classical hoplites and their weapons.
    If you still don't believe me, think on this: all the 3 greatest general of ancient greece (Iphikrates, Epaminondas, Philip II) increased the lenght of the spear of their soldiers: oh, but surely they were all dumb... (sorry for the tone but I had to be a bit sarcastic )

    EDIT: one last thing: the heavy (and in 4° BC this is debatable too...) makedonian cavalry was so important and effective in a pike vs. spear struggle that Antigonid kings, who largely faced hoplitic armies, regarded cavalry mainly as an auxiliary weapon, and still more often than not defeated greeks, giving Romans the excuse to land in greece to "free " them. I think this is to take in account too.
    Last edited by Aper; 01-14-2009 at 12:33.
    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    RESPECT
    from Ibrahim

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