Leaving school

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Well, I was bullied myself once. It was really bad so I told my parents, and we went together to the principal of the school. The bulliers were treated very hard and the bullying stopped immediately. I kept my loyal mates, but it also kind of cut me off from the other pupils in school because I broke the law of not-denunciating. But I seriously gave a **** about that. What are people worth who support the bulliers more than the bullied?

If you don't have real friends at school, the price is nothing for you and I'd say make it the same way I did (if you can). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you live in Argentina? Well, not that I know much about it, but an Argentine girl told me about the system there and I would dearly recommend you NOT to leave school, because you'll be completely ****** if you do.

I know bullying is psycho-terror, but do not quit school. Go through it and try not to look like a victim. Talk to the authorities. You could need a witness, so don't back off your loose mates.

[RoadKill]

I thought you were one of the 300 Spartans. Scream some crazy **** and kick him down a well.

[Raz]

If you're planning on getting physical, always make sure you've got someone to back you up, even if it's a small guy, just someone to distract them if you ever start on the losing side - That way your mate will give you enough time to control yourself and regain your senses.

Tell a friend too, say "I'm gonna fight this guy if he starts on me, so watch my back, kay?". Make sure you never start the whole incident yourself, make sure he comes onto you or provokes you first especially if it's at school itself, meaning you're most likely gonna get caught.

I've never under went any form of martial arts or boxing training, I'm self-taught. You see, I was always a small kid, so people saw me as an easy target all the time - you pick up a thing or two on how to defend yourself during these days before you start to fill out in your later teens. Once your actually in the fight, a blind-rage is just as good as many years experience. As Andres has said, a one well placed blow should ensure he doesn't come back, though if the fight is protracted, make sure you keep your distance, especially if you are a bit small compared to him. If that's the case, you'll need to use your quick, and speedy movement to your advantage. Something I've been told by people who have actually trained in a martial arts practice is that a good kick to the knee (pushing their knee backward) will also make them drop to the ground, provided it is powerful enough.

As you can tell by my sig and the detail I've put into this post, I'm a bit of a streetfighting nut - always defending myself though, never starting any fights.

[Beirut]

Very difficult situation. One of the hardest to deal with.

First off, you can't quit school because of them. You're handing over far too much authority over yourself if you do. It's simply not an option.

The answer? I wish I had one. Don't neglect the simple and seemingly nerdy things like talking to your parents or a teacher. They know things you don't, especially about confrontation and how people behave and react.

Perhaps the best advice on how to deal with a bully, assuming you can't avoid them, is the classic advice; stand up to them. Bullies feed on fear. Every time you stand your ground it makes you a less interesting target. Bullies don't see people as individuals, they see them as targets. Be an individual. Surprise them. Stand your ground, hold your head up, and make no bones about it; "I don't care what your problem is, I'm not interested. Go **** with someone else."

Say it loud and say it clear and say it every time they bug you. If you remove the fun for them, they'll probably leave you alone.

Also, nothing wrong with exercise. You'll get stronger, feel better and more confident, and be even less of a target. One guy I work with was bullied in school, then he started lifting weights and within a "short" while, he was left alone. Not just because his arms got bigger, but because he looked and felt more confident.

[LittleGrizzly]

There is mostly other better advice here but this is something i developed myself over the years...

Im assuming the bullying is physical, if it is just name calling then use your brain your a pretty clever kid im sure you could run intellectual circles round the bullies, find thier weak spot, be it something physically different thier intellectual capacity or just how many times you did thier mother last night.

Back onto my main point, if the bullying is physical then just stand there and take every punch, laugh in thier face and ask for more, it takes alot of concentration to ignore the pain but show them that they cannot hurt you and they ultimately either get bored of start feeling stupid. If they do just continually punch you wait until thier are pulling back to throw another one and either
1) throw all your force into a punch in the face
2) dive at them hitting them to the floor and then try to get some type of grab on them, a simple headlock will do

If you ultimately cannot defeat them physically then theres nothing wrong with fighting dirty,

(Ummmm... no - Beirut)

[edyzmedieval]

(Un-Frontroomish comments - Beirut)

[Vuk]

Stay away from "dirtyfighting". It is lowly, dangerous, and if you do it, you will make an enemy for life. Do what you need to defend yourself, but trust me, it is better to stay away from things like that.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I think that one's a bit too nasty. Please tell me you haven't actually done that before...

(Edited quote - Beirut)

[Beirut]

Yeah, that's about enough of that. Kindly refrain from giving information on how to fold, spindle, and mutilate.

If you have something smart to say, please. If you don't, please don't.

Thank you.

[Rhyfelwyr]

First time I've read posts before the moderators have come and cut them.

But back on the OP, I really do not think that you should try to retaliate before you see someone about the issue. If your parents won't listen, take it to the school. Even if you seem cold and that you are not trying to socialise, then that causes no harm to other people and they have no right to be causing you this misery. Please, go to the school authorities with it. Or even just a teacher, but let them know there is a problem.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Once you begin to set foot in that frame of mind of fighting, it's hard to quit. Nonviolence is the key.

"Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."

...(in this case it's fists)

[Caius]

WEll, there is a relation between the bullies and the autorities. If they bullies are given warnings, they will stare and me and they will give me threats of being punched and kicked.

The last days were good, at least I was ignored from those who try to hurt me, and I had an interesting talk with a friend of mine. Looks like I have to go into a paranoia state and think ten times what I'm going to say because I can be attacked again.

[Whacker]

Once you begin to set foot in that frame of mind of fighting, it's hard to quit. Nonviolence is the key.

"Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."

...(in this case it's fists)

Respectfully, no, negative, never, absolutely not, etc etc. This is a very bad, wrong mindset, is not honorable and does nothing but further your case as a victim and empower bullies. Getting smacked around without fighting back does nothing for your physical health or self esteem. You are not better than the person who is whacking you around for letting them do so.

Don't go looking for a fight, but don't be a coward or a victim. Getting back into a corner and forced to defend yourself is awful enough, but not fighting and standing up for yourself is the little death that brings total oblivion. As I and others have said, if you act like a victim that's exactly how you'll be treated.

Caius,

Hopefully you've talked to your parents and some authority figures by now on this. If not then do so SOON.

Lastly, at the risk of being a broken record, I strongly urge you to look into a good martial art that will teach you real application, not just useless forms and showy kicks. It does not matter what art it is, there is no such thing as superior martial art and everyone has their own opinion on what's best (myself included). Even if you situation improves tomorrow and you never have to deal with this again, the health, discipline, and confidence benefits will be well worth your time and effort. Plus being able to dismantle someone is pretty cool unto itself.

Best of luck kiddo. We're all pulling for you.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

I think the worst thing you could do is drop from school.
Doing so would give the bullies the greatest satisfaction knowing that they have that kind of power. Not to mention how you will be shortchanging yourself in the long run. Do whatever it takes to get that degree.

[LittleGrizzly]

Stay away from "dirtyfighting". It is lowly, dangerous, and if you do it, you will make an enemy for life.

I think if someones determined to make your life a misery with physical bullying you have to make them come out of it with at least one injury every time, if every time i hits me i manage to poke him in the eye an he walks round with a bad eye all day how many days in a row is he going to want to keep that up.

TBH if the bullying is bad enough im up for just standing there and spitting at him, is it really going to be worth the pleasure of hitting you if every time you just start spitting like crazy.

[Beirut]

Call me a shmoo if you wish, but I'm of the opinion that 99% of potentially violent conflicts can be avoided, either by simply being avoided or reasoned out of. There is a huge difference between being a pacifist, if we are going to use that term, and being a victim. I consider myself a pacifist for the most part. I find the idea of people hitting othere people for sport (unless it is a sport) very disturbing.

That in mind, I would take grave exception to anyone trying to make a victim out of me. Also, keep in mind I'm an old fart by many of your standards and have, in hindsight, seen the uselessness and stupidity of violence. I have also, as many of you have, heard of people suffering grievous injuries over stupid affairs. Two dummies argue over nothing, a punch is thrown, and one poor guy's retina is damagaed beyond repair. Was that inane argument worth being partially blinded over?

I will avoid every fight except the unavoidable one.

[Raz]

And when is a fight labeled unavoidable?

In your example (I hope that's an example, 'cause being partially blinded doesn't sound too fun), if the one who was blinded was the one who provoked him, then I believe the result was just and he got exactly what he deserved, no matter what triggered the incident. Who knows, this guy that blinded him might've been mentally unfit, in a blind-rage or going through tough times in the rocky-road of life itself. The result, being the blinding, might've been completely accidental/was not the target/aim. These are all applicable defenses. Thus this inane argument might not have been worth the blinding, but it was completely justified.

[Vuk]

Call me a shmoo if you wish, but I'm of the opinion that 99% of potentially violent conflicts can be avoided, either by simply being avoided or reasoned out of. There is a huge difference between being a pacifist, if we are going to use that term, and being a victim. I consider myself a pacifist for the most part. I find the idea of people hitting othere people for sport (unless it is a sport) very disturbing.

That in mind, I would take grave exception to anyone trying to make a victim out of me. Also, keep in mind I'm an old fart by many of your standards and have, in hindsight, seen the uselessness and stupidity of violence. I have also, as many of you have, heard of people suffering grievous injuries over stupid affairs. Two dummies argue over nothing, a punch is thrown, and one poor guy's retina is damagaed beyond repair. Was that inane argument worth being partially blinded over?

I will avoid every fight except the unavoidable one.

I agree with Beruit. You should ALWAYS avoid a physical confrontation if possible. They always teach you when you learn martial arts that you should do everything possible including running to avoid a fight. I am 6' 3'' and wiegh 230lbs. I have been studying martial arts for years and am not one 99.9999% of people would want to tangle with. I have had to turn and walk away several times to avoid a fight before. When I have been forced into physical confontations I have done what I needed to protect myself, but no more. Even if you are forced into a physical confrontation your objective should not be to injure someone, but to protect yourself.

Stay away from "dirtyfighting". It is lowly, dangerous, and if you do it, you will make an enemy for life.

I think if someones determined to make your life a misery with physical bullying you have to make them come out of it with at least one injury every time, if every time i hits me i manage to poke him in the eye an he walks round with a bad eye all day how many days in a row is he going to want to keep that up.

That is very bad advice Grizzly, and dangerous to. Also, you run a risk of permanently injuring someone, wish you probably do not want to do because of school bullying.

TBH if the bullying is bad enough im up for just standing there and spitting at him, is it really going to be worth the pleasure of hitting you if every time you just start spitting like crazy.
That is again bad advice. You will only get you face pushed in if you do that.

[Ramses II CP]

You need to get some perspective on the problem and take the long view of the solution. First off, everyone gets bullied, a large part of being in school is learning how to adjust to it, defray the social costs, and incorporate yourself into the group structure. People who say they didn't get bullied simply conformed well enough socially that the word teasing, or even joking, better describes for them the behavior you're experiencing as bullying. It's all a part of the same system.

I agree with a lot of the other posters here that you should not be afraid to fight. If someone pushes you, push back. No matter if you win or not you'll respect yourself for it in the long run, which is more important than any one fight. In my own experience having fought just a few times in school I was not physically bullied afterward.

On finding perspective, I recommend reading. Either novels which explore the problem from a more internal view (Lord of the Flies can be a good starting place), or works of philosophy for a broader examination of the nature of social pressure. In this direction I'd recommend the same things I would for a starting student of politics, Hobbes (Leviathan), Hume (A Treatise of Human Nature), and Marx. The problems you are learning to deal with run through society from top to bottom, and it's better to figure out now how you want to deal with them than to put it off and have them continue to trouble you in your adult life.

A longer view of the problem and it's solution will help you realize that what you're going through right now, although it feels very important and serious, is both utterly unimportant and not at all serious. Once you get through school, and no matter which solution you pursue, or even if you pursue none of them, you will get through it, it will be your choice whether or not you ever again see any of the people who loom so large right now. You can shed them like a bad habit and never look back for the rest of your life.

Let me see if I can sum up that hodgepodge up there:

1. Seek to understand the system that produces the behavior, not the individuals that exhibit it. Individuals aren't the real problem, they're just a symptom of the problems inherent to human society. If you can see the patterns that produce the behavior you can learn to control it, or at least avoid it.

2. Find a coping mechanism and stick with it. If you're attacked, fight back.

3. Life goes on, don't sweat the small stuff, and similar platitudes to the effect that things will get better, you just have to endure these bumps on the path.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Wow Ramses. That was very eloquent. I liked when you said "1. Seek to understand the system that produces the behavior, not the individuals that exhibit it. Individuals aren't the real problem, they're just a symptom of the problems inherent to human society. If you can see the patterns that produce the behavior you can learn to control it, or at least avoid it."
In fact, it stirred my mind to this thought.

Being a pacifist is the hardest path--to take injury from your enemies and then give forgiveness back to them and respect to yourself.

The easier path is to give injury back to them and respect to yourself.

Both paths have the same objective of making a change in your enemy. But to stick with the former, I think you must be made of sterner stuff. Any five-year old can hit back. But to forgive; that takes a man of greater constitution.

[Beirut]

And when is a fight labeled unavoidable?

It's unavoidable when it's unavoidable. Each set of circumstances is different and specific. If I can walk away from a situation without engaging in violence, then it's avoidable. If I cannot, then it's unavoidable.

[Rhyfelwyr]

It's unavoidable when it's unavoidable. Each set of circumstances is different and specific. If I can walk away from a situation without engaging in violence, then it's avoidable. If I cannot, then it's unavoidable.

I thought you carried a massive axe everywhere you went? How do you resist?

[Beirut]

I thought you carried a massive axe everywhere you went? How do you resist?

I'm old enough and (barely) wise enough to know the true evils of violence. I find the idea of hurting another person for reasons of ego to be a shameful and shallow and often cowardly act. If someone wants to impress me with how tough they are, they can show me how well they work, how well they deal with responsibility, and how well they keep their word.

I'm having a beer and I have the time, so I'll tell you a story (I might have told it before) about a guy who "bullied" me at work. At the log yard, we had these two twins working for us, both were a good 6'2", pretty big and pretty tough. Half French/Half Irish. One of the guys was (mostly) ok, the other wasn't. The nasty guy was a real bar fighter and big mouth, he liked to bump into me in the yard when he walked past me, and he'd always make comments, like "Where's your purse?" or "Oh, you're using the woman's tools." Stuff like that. In a fight with this guy, I would have come off badly, I'm sure.

One day he did something, I don't remember what, and I had enough. I went over to a pile of pine logs we used for the houses, picked out a decent sized piece, maybe seven feet long and about a foot across. I put it on my shoulder, and walked up the small hill in the yard ,down the hill, across the yard (maybe 200') and back. (At this point the rest of the guys have come over to watch.) When I got back, I dropped the log at the guy's feet and said, "Until you do that, you're my *****."

Well, the guy picked up the log and put it on his shoulder, turned beet red, walked up the small hill, back down, and dropped the log and nearly collapsed. Now my buddy comes over, says "There's nothing Beirut can do that I can't." He picks up the log, up the hill, down the hill, across the yard and back.. Then my boss does it. Then my other buddy does it except on the way back across the yard he jogs with the log. This guy is tough. By this time we barely notice that the big bar fighting tough guy has gotten in his car and left. He never bugged me after that.

In a fight I'm sure I would have gotten the worst of it, but as a worker, I could leave him in the dust five times over. I'm not sure what the moarl is here other than fighting isn't everything, and bullies can be put in their place without violence.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Lastly, at the risk of being a broken record, I strongly urge you to look into a good martial art that will teach you real application, not just useless forms and showy kicks.

How are the sambo schools in Argentina?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75gw...eature=related

[Caius]

How are the sambo schools in Argentina?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75gw...eature=related

Who needs Vin Diesel when you have students of those kinds of school?

/grabs coat

[LittleGrizzly]

Well the dirty fighting is more of a last resort than anything, when you get to the point that your getting your face punched in anyway, and when it gets to the point that you could be the one walking away with the injury....

[Good Ship Chuckle]

When I got back, I dropped the log at the guy's feet and said, "Until you do that, you're my *****."

Yes!

Hey man, if you can't beat him at his game, then force him with his pride to contest against you in a game you're better at!

[Ferret]

wow, I've never heard anyone say 'read Marx if you are being bullied'

My advice is use you friends. Try to stay close to them and if they are decent friends they will stand up for you, especially if they are pretty big. If you are physically bullied then it is a problem and you should either tell someone or fight back if you are confident enough you can deter them without serious injury to you or the bully. Throughout my school years I have avoided fights due to the fact that I don't want to get in trouble rather than scared I'll get hurt, but I have never hesitated to use force when I am certain it is necessary.

[Ramses II CP]

Marx presents one of the most easily understood explorations of power dynamics in groups and societies. Yeah, you aren't going to solve a bully issue by banding together with like minded proletariats, but boiled down to it's essence bullies are a social problem in the same way class exploitation is a social problem.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Throughout my school years I have avoided fights due to the fact that I don't want to get in trouble rather than scared I'll get hurt, but I have never hesitated to use force when I am certain it is necessary.

I was like that, though not specifically with long-term bullying issues. I was never really scared of having a scuffle, but I lived in fear of doing the slightest thing wrong that could get me in trouble.