By the gods, won't somebody do something about these chariots?

**Ludens** · 05-07-2008, 16:51

You can indeed use chariots like elephants. They are less deadly (less missile kills and far less "trampling" kills) but on the positive side the Celtic ones are not prone to running amok and won't harm your own troops (apart from tossing them aside and occasionally hitting them with javelins). Celtic chariots also provide morale bonuses to allied troops.

**Elmetiacos** · 05-07-2008, 17:52

Looking at the design of a British chariot such as this reconstruction http://www.mikeloades.co.uk/cms/imag...sh_Chariot.pdf it clearly isn't designed for crashing into enemy flanks. While I don't think any of us would enjoy being knocked down by a couple of ponies, note that the chariot has no front and so if it comes to a sudden halt, the warriors inside risk being thrown out headfirst and landing on the yoke (with hilarious consequences - from the enemy's point of view). I've had to uninstall RTW for the moment so I don't have the stats for EB's chariot units, but they ought to be used as a sort of combination missile cavalry/heavy infantry, as Caesar says they were.

**Jaywalker-Jack** · 05-07-2008, 18:39

When are people going to realize that tricky things, like using chariots (or fighting the Gaesatae, or starting out heavily in debt, or preventing an enemy faction getting too strong) are exactly what makes the game fun. Using the brain to overcome challenges, thats what its all about. Forgive me if Im stating the obvious here, but it dosnt seem obvious to everyone!

**Tellos Athenaios** · 05-07-2008, 20:16

Casse generals are something you need to acquire a taste for. In any case their javelins are actually pretty useful but more of an added bonus. However it is one which greatly enhances the other boni:

1) Morale effects on both enemy (negative) as well as your own (positive) forces.
2) They are probably more devastating in pursuit than any other unit I have used: the image of one giant broom comes to mind...
3) Continuous missile fire appears to be more demoralising to enemy units than ordinary missile fire -- which is the main use of the Cantabrian circle. However the way the Casse bodyguards throw their javelins makes for pretty much a stationary equivalent to this Cantabrian circle. Without the exhaustion on your side, that is.

EDIT: So if you combine 1 + 3 it's not hard to see why you can incur serious loss of moral among the enemy soldier by simply moving your Casse general a lil' closer to them than they like.

**Jaume** · 05-07-2008, 21:26

Originally Posted by Jaywalker-Jack

When are people going to realize that tricky things, like using chariots (...) are exactly what makes the game fun.

Yes. But I get even more fun when I send indian infantry. You know:

Aren't they so cool?

**Ludens** · 05-07-2008, 21:06

Originally Posted by Elmetiacos

I've had to uninstall RTW for the moment so I don't have the stats for EB's chariot units, but they ought to be used as a sort of combination missile cavalry/heavy infantry, as Caesar says they were.

You are quite right, and the current situation is ahistorical, but unfortunatly there is little that can be done about it. The R:TW engine has not been created with chariots in mind: it treats them like any other unit, and does not realize how fragile they are. There is no dismounting option to simulate their use as battle taxis*, and making them more fragile will result in Casse generals useless for the player and a liability for the A.I. (they used to be like that back in the 0.8 build, so they received a stat boost). Ploughing through enemy battles lines is unrealistic, but the only way you can effectively use them.

* Psycho V mentioned the possibility of changing chariots into siege engines so the warrior could leave the chariot, but I haven't heard of it since and I am very skeptical whether it would work.

Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

2) They are probably more devastating in pursuit than any other unit I have used: the image of one giant broom comes to mind...

How do you use them? I have found them useless when pursuiting. They might occasionaly throw a lucky javelin, but some light cavalry is far more effective at mopping up routers.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 05-08-2008, 00:02

Originally Posted by Ludens

How do you use them? I have found them useless when pursuiting. They might occasionaly throw a lucky javelin, but some light cavalry is far more effective at mopping up routers.

As I said the image of a broom comes to mind: you do not try to pick on each bit of dust one by one (in English: don't let them explicitly attack); rather you 'aim' one big swoop (in English: just let them race through the routing mass) at times from one angle, and at times from another one.

Getting trampled under chariots aint much fun; getting trampled under chariots whilst being pelted by javelins much less so but worst of all would be to dodge them once only to find yourself running right into an angry mob of enemy soldiers -- and at the same time being pursued by those chariots turning around and getting awfully close awfully fast.

**Ludens** · 05-08-2008, 16:06

I see. However, they really don't kill that much by themselves. You need to sweep the routers into other units to get them.

Off course, I use my cavalry and chariots very actively, so they are generally tired and out of ammo by the time they start pursuing routers. I also have a house rule that prohibits pursuing with exhausted units.