EB MP tornament and general dicussion

[king hannibal]

Welcome to the first EB Tournament

hi so it seem people are up for a tornament good to see

this thread is for everything to do with the general dicussion of EB MP and the tornament that will start on the 22nd of may to let all them tried students and a few days to get over there hang overs

but first has any one got a good way of judging the compertion fairly and flexiable bean (RTR fan jump for joy ) came up with the idea of everyone fight each other and the person that wins the most wins the tornament this is probly the best way to get people into it but not for judging the champion as the person that on it will most likey win and there are people that will never see each other



Game play

so what if we do a regional time line compertion where you play people from you're time line say GMT 0 to +8hour and then do three groups this way and send the winners though to play each other or the modders if there up for it play them?

I though this myself and someone else has said it thougher down which I think should be added 1 game with one faction so you only get to use that faction once on the tornament although this depends on how many people join the tornament, but will cut down on looking for one army to beat everyone else with

the score for each battle depends on what you get +4 to your score if you get a historical victory and so if you get close victory you get +1 but you are not allowed to atmite defeat to stop someone getting a better victory but you can reteat to stop them getting a better victory

2 matches per person you play

so is everyone up for the regional time line Idea of the the tornament?

any different ideas for gameplay you can think of doing?

rules

need 2 photos like this of the battle





use this to get up to 20 images of battles
http://www.game-master.net/pages/grabby.html

no upgrading attack of any units only +1 defence upgrade to any unit

no upgrading archers-slinger-horse achers Experince

no spamming a few units so, max of 6 units for only 1 unit type of any faction for any main unit that the faction has and then 4 after that of a factions main units types for that army unless you are rome with legionare which can have 10 units, meranaire or auxilaire units no more than 2-3 for any unit type and finaly no more than 2 units of the same cav

hmm I've see that people want the horse achers limited I'm trying to think of a good way to word it
how about this no more than 4-5 unit types of horse archer with the rule of no more than 2 horse units of any type for nomand faction and no more than 1 unit type of horse archer for the other factions?

money I think should be 20000 - 50000 each player get to chose the amount for one battle each within there bounderys

no red line bordering

anyone want to add or have changed them? I'm trying to keep it simple so it's easy to remember them

maps using and ideas for maps

also what do people think about having a hilly maps that are good for both sides although I think we should use them I think if the person you are againest dosen't want to fight on them then you have to come down from the hill or not go on the map

MAP ALLOWED

macedonian ruins ------------------- should be balanced - hilly
grassy flatland --------------------- flat
syrian flats ------------------------- flat
EB irish east coast ------------------ flatish just slanting up hill on one flank of all map
EB irish marshlands ------------------ flat - few tree for both sides
EB belgica ---------------------- flat treey - in middle of map room to deploy out of trees at sides of map
EB western gual --------------------- one side tilt mound on one flank the other a few trees
EB pripyat marshes ------------------ flat
EB Danube Delta ------------ flatish just slanting up hill on one flank of all map one sides got a few trees

the wild card maps
EB nineveh and the tigris ------------- hills on both sides of flanks race to the middle
sarmatian mound -------------------- race to the middle - mound in middle of map


just ask if you want one to be added but I think we should have a good number here

X-fire names - times likely to be on and there countrys

so put your name down now for the first EB tornament

X-fire name -------- time that they can get on ------ country and GMT time line on if need or requested

kinghannibalrtr --------------6pm to 12 AM --------------------------- ENG GMT 0
if PMed a few days before may also be able to get on any other times from 9 AM to 12AM

Mulattothrasher -------------- not sure -------------------------------- USA -4hrs east

lovejoy3 --------------------- not sure -------------------------------- not sure think ENG

1stNeoSpartan --------------- not sure -------------------------------- USA GMT -4hrs east

Burakuku -------------------- not sure --------------------------------- +3 GMT

Kallinikospalaestinos ---------3pm to 10 pm ----------------------------- - 6hrs GMT

wertdengrumme ------------- not sure --------------------------------- denmark GMT -1

Trippin301 ------------------ not sure --------------------------------- USA central -5 GMT

hamachi name
lorDBula -------------------- not sure ---------------------------------- GMT +1

ok we got the competiters I've divid us all into to groups it seems it's going to be Americans V Americans and Europeans V Europeans with a the finals American V Europe

group Europe ...........................SCORE...............MEN KILLED ...........NUMBER OF BATTLES HAD

King hinnibal ---------------------- ........ ---------- .............. ---------- ................................
Lovejoy 3 ------------------------- ....... ---------- ............... --------- .................................
Burakuku ------------------------- ........ ---------- ............... --------- .................................
wertdengrumme ------------------- ........ ---------- .............. --------- .................................
lorDBula -------------------------- ........ ---------- .............. ---------- .................................

group American..........................SCORE..............MEN KILLED ............NUMBER OF BATTLES HAD

Mulattothrasher ------------------- ........ ---------- .............. ---------- ..................................
1stNeoSpartan -------------------- ........ ---------- .............. ---------- ..................................
Kallinikospalaestinos --------------- ........ ---------- ............. ---------- ..................................
Trippin301 ------------------------ ........ ---------- .............. ---------- ..................................

Hamachi servers have been setup to

server name: EB tornament American --- for the American group
password: EB MP

server name: EB tornament Europe ----- for the Europe group
password: EB MP

[Power2the1]

Xfire: Mulattothrasher
Hamachi: The_Gaesatae
Time Zone: EST
Country: USA


I'm all for the time zone/region organization, unless somebody knows theres a better way to do it.

Not sure on rules, but, 40-50k should address most anything cost wise


A few of my own rules for consideration
-Roman players should stick to historical compositions; so with legions, for example, having more than 1 first cohort, and 9 standard cohorts isn't allowed.
-No elephants
-No artillery

I do not have much experience with factions that field horse archers. How many horse archer type units should be allowed in an MP match?

[Lovejoy]

22th of may. I wont be able to play the first weak or so.

-No elephants
-No artillery

Do not agree. Elephants isnt that great. And they cost ALOT. I dont see the problem.

Artillery? Hm maybe.. I dont remember them being so good. But maybe they are overpowerd in some way...?

EDIT:
XFIRE: lovejoy3

[NeoSpartan]

About the Rules...

As I explained before in the MP fficial thread, $$$ can heavyly affect the outcome of a battle.

40K is on the high end. 50k is REALLY on the hight end (like all elites type of high end).
-----------------
I'll come back to the rules in a little but lets talk about how the tornament will be set up.

The time zone idea is AWESOME! we should stick to it.

Now... as I pointed out before in EB $$$ makes a HUGE difference as some factions are better than other when playing at a certain budget amount.

Because of that I called that players should play 3 battles against eachother before moving on. HOWEVER, because of this is our 1st tornament and its more of a test type of thing, I say 1 battle is enough. We need to see how this thing develops. and organize one better for next time.

----------------

Regarding gameplay rulez here is an ongoing discussion me and Gabeleisis were having:

Re: E.B. multiplayer (offical)




Originally Posted by Gebeleisis
ok in case of a tourney these are the suggested rules in my opinion,feel free to spread your opinions

Rules are:

-Grassy Plain map or any other flat maps that have to be accepted by both players
-2 out of 3 games
-money:
15k mnai
30k mnai
45k mnai
-no red line camping

Army selection rules:
-you can use a faction only once in every stage of the competition
-max 4 RI (ranged infantry includes: archers,slingers) ["Peltastai" and units like these do not count like ranged infantry]
-max 4 same units
-max 4 HA (Horse archers includes javelin armed cavalry)
-max 1 level upgrade
-minimum of troops per army differs to the amount of money the tourney runs on

NeoSpartan Wrote:

-max 4 same units
An exeption to this rule are the (marian & Imperial) Legionaries to a Max of 10.

-max 4 HA (Horse archers includes javelin armed cavalry)
-- I am not so sure about this. Maybe a limit to 4 HA of the same kind. Ex: 4 Catapharact HA only. But OK with 4 unarmored HA. To a max of 10 HA units.
---> I say because HA factions normaly threw out lots of HA's.
------> and if YOU play against a HA faction the limit of 4 RI does not apply.

Gab can u clarify more on this "max 4 same units"???
-When I used to play MP we had a similar rule we meant the unit itself not the category of the unit.
-ex: Max of 4 Pezetaori (sp), but u can have 4 Phalangitai Deuteroi in ur army too.

Another rule:
Max of 5 Merc unit OF ANY KIND.
--ex: You are the Romani and u can have a 1 Classical Hoplite, 1 Hoplitai Troglodutikes, 2 Prodomoi, 1 Thraikioi Hippeis

Gebeleisis Wrote:
yes i was refering to the "same unit" as name like you explained

and i do not agree with max 10 ha case it will turn out a 2 hour battle until they use up their arrows

Now I write.... (and respond to king hannibal, Power2the1, Lovejoy)

1. From my expireince the HA battles didn't take 2hrs.... HOWEVER they did take longer than usual PLUS a flat terrain does offer advantages to HA armies. Put the same HA is the thick bushes of Germania and they are

So yeah 4 HA. Ur right.
-But I would not count Javening Cavarly as HA, I mean its SO not the same. (they need to get a lot closer, they don't have as much ammo, and they don't tend to be as armored as the better HA's)

2. The way to choose how much $$ to use will be by the players choosing 15k, or 30k, or 45k. If they can't decide do a "coin toss" or a "think of a number", or a 3rd party choose it for them.

Once the players are choosing their armies AND they have a budget of less than $45k, the players can choose weather or not to increase or decrease the amount of $$ to a MAX of $3000.
ex:
-X and Y chose to play with 30k.
-They talk and decide to decrease that amont by $2000.
-They choose their armies with a budget of 28k.

---I add this because as I've explained before the type of army, the tacticts, and the effectivenss on that army at a given budget varies from faction to faction. Remember fellas EB is "historically balanced" not "gameplay balanced".

3. I have no problems if a player wants to spend all his budget on elephants and artillery. Remember guys, this is EB, you ain't gonna see cheap Onagers throwing accurate fire bombs at your troops.

4. 100% absolutely NO upgrades.
Here is why:
-Upgrades not only mess up the stats of units BUT the +attack/defence/moral are unevenly distributed. Eventhough upgrades cost more the more expensive the unit is, this cost difference does is not even among all factions. And neither is the amount of bonus give.


For those who don't have it:
X-Fire: 1stNeoSpartan
Hamachi: 1stNeoSpartan
EST time, USA.
-4hrs GMT

[The Celtic Viking]

22nd May is not so good for me either. :|

- Why grassy plain map? Any map that is agreed upon by both players, I say - and if no agreement can be made, send in 3rd party.
- Why ban people from using the same faction more than once/stage? Or is that only once/tournament? I want my God-King!
- No restrictions on ellies or arties. My reason being that there is no reason to restrict them. They're not overpowered, and not exactly cheap anyway. I, personally, would rather spending that money on other units anyway.

I agree with Spartan on the jav cav not counting as HAs, and not to be restricted the same. I mean, you're not limiting foot javs along with the foot archers and slingers, so why do it with horses? Especially as skirmishers are a helluva lot better than the jav cav in ranged... and the peltastai you mentioned aren't exactly peasants in melee either.

X-Fire: TVMonkey
GMT +1

[Ibrahim]

why not? but on 1 condition:

is it doable with a clean v1.1 (iread in multiplayer thread it is .81 v jazz that I don't get)
if so, then anywhere from 3:00 pm in texas time to 10:00pm in same time (in GMT I dunno)

[NeoSpartan]

Get the GMT time here:

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/

look at that time and see how many hours ahead or behind you are.

I am -4hrs GMT. (and I live in the East Coast of the US)

[The Celtic Viking]

Get the GMT time here:

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/

look at that time and see how many hours ahead or behind you are.

I am -4hrs GMT. (and I live in the East Coast of the US)

Right, good link, that. Reminded me that because of DST I'm actually in GMT+2 now.

[Emperor Burakuku]

GMT +3 here.
On X-Fire: burakuku
I'm not sure if I can play on Hamachi. I wasn't able to do so in previous versions and I tried almost anything. So my question is: will this tournament be on Hamachi or Gamespy?

Now here is what I propose regarding rules:

1. Money: 15k, 30k, 45k. Money is very important as Neo said. If the players decide for a plus or a minus of 2-3 it's their business.
2. Max of 4-6 per unit type except for post marians.
3. HA armies. This is tricky. I agree on a max of 10 HA (including javelin calv) But i say that armoured HA should be restricted to 2. As you will also have melee catas. I propose something like that: max 2 arm HA, max 4-5 HA, max 3-4 Javelin calv for a maximum of 10 units.
4. No red line bordering.
5. Why ban a player for using the same army? Don't see an argument for this like Celtic Viking said.
6. About upgrades. I say that a maximum +1 per category is decent. Not more than +1 armour, +1 attack, +1 exp. Why? It will make the battles longer or so to speak they will not be too short. Plus that agains a HA army, with no armour... It kinda sucks.
7. I am against banning elephantes and artilery. They're both expensive and not that deadly as ppl expect them.
8. About the maps: I personaly prefer flat maps, but if 2 guys want to play whatever map, I cannot be against it.
9. A max of 2 general's calv maybe.
10. Max of 5 mercs maybe.

Nothing else comes to my mind atm. We should discuss and vote somehow.

KH congrats for your efforts mate.

P.S: Sory for the bad english guys but I'm really in a hury. Plus that this is the 2nd time I do this as my X-fire update redirected me on a different link and I lost all I wrote the 1st time. Cheers!

[Ibrahim]

OK user name on Xfire is kallinikospalaestinos...registrator wouldn't let me use another name..
its -6hrs GMT
also:

GMT +3 here.
On X-Fire: burakuku
I'm not sure if I can play on Hamachi. I wasn't able to do so in previous versions and I tried almost anything. So my question is: will this tournament be on Hamachi or Gamespy?

Now here is what I propose regarding rules:

1. Money: 15k, 30k, 45k. Money is very important as Neo said. If the players decide for a plus or a minus of 2-3 it's their business.
2. Max of 4 per unit type except for post marians.
3. HA armies. This is tricky. I agree on a max of 10 HA (including javelin calv) But i say that armoured HA should be restricted to 2. As you will also have melee catas. I propose something like that: max 2 arm HA, max 4-5 HA, max 3-4 Javelin calv for a maximum of 10 units.
4. No red line bordering.
5. Why ban a player for using the same army? Don't see an argument for this like Celtic Viking said.
6. About upgrades. I say that a maximum +1 per category is decent. Not more than +1 armour, +1 attack, +1 exp. Why? It will make the battles longer or so to speak they will not be too short. Plus that agains a HA army, with no armour... It kinda sucks.
7. I am against banning elephantes and artilery. They're both expensive and not that deadly as ppl expect them.
8. About the maps: I personaly prefer flat maps, but if 2 guys want to play whatever map, I cannot be against it.
9. A max of 2 general's calv maybe.
10. Max of 5 mercs maybe.

Nothing else comes to my mind atm. We should discuss and vote somehow.

KH congrats for your efforts mate.

P.S: Sory for the bad english guys but I'm really in a hury. Plus that this is the 2nd time I do this as my X-fire update redirected me on a different link and I lost all I wrote the 1st time. Cheers!

I endose these rules, except for elephant and catapult part (that way poeple have enough money to have more men=longerbattles as well. as such, I say bann! I also say ioncrease max infantry units from 4 to 6

[NeoSpartan]

... I also say ioncrease max infantry units from 4 to 6

dude nobody is limiting max infantry or cavarly. ur getting urself confused

to help u understand, we are limiting the SPECIFIC TYPE of infantry and cavarly.
ex: only 4 Pezetaroi. But u can have 4pezetaroi and 4 silver shields.
ex: only 4 Hetaroi. But u can have 4 Hetaroi and 4 Prodomoi (sp)

what u CANNOT do is:
ex: 8 pezetaroi.
ex: 2 Hetaroi and 6 Prodomoi

hope this helps.

[Emperor Burakuku]

Let's try to keep this thread up guys. So ppl can see it.

@Ibrahim: 4 of a unit type. So you can have 20 infantry but only 4 pezhetairoi, 4 silver shields and 12 other.

As for the artillery and elephants, I don't really care. Is just that think about it... 2 eles cost between 20k and 30k... It's a lot of cash. Why restrict those? But like I said, don't really care as I don't use them often... or at all.

[Ibrahim]

that was exactly what I meant! I know you can have all infantry, just I'd like a maximum of 6 of one type (I wish I was clearer)...

[Emperor Burakuku]

Don't know mate but any proposal is welcome. So I will add yours. I still am for 4 maybe with some historical exceptions.

[king hannibal]

ok I should have made a better effort at presenting the first post so sorry updated the first post with ideas that are mostly to be used

give times you can get on look at top post as I can get on mostly any time if PMed a few days before and if yyou can do the same say please

you can say if you don't like the ideas used and your idea sounds better will be changed or if enough people agree that a rule should be change will be changed that way to

what are the problem with 22nd of may?

[wertdengrumme]

I am interested in joining this tournament, if it ever starts.

[The Celtic Viking]

what are the problem with 22nd of may?

For me, the problem is that I have kind of a final exam in physics the day after. I think I also have a chemistry test that week, and if I do, it's probably on the 22nd itself. That's why it's not so good a date for me.

[Ibrahim]

hey lets all figure out a new date, eh? one every one can agree on. I'm free for may, and from late june to late August. that's a whole lot of days to pick and choose a compramise from.

[Gaius marcus]

Im here now

Xfire: Trippin301

Country: USA

Time Zone: Central

[NeoSpartan]

Im here now

Xfire: Trippin301

Country: USA

Time Zone: Central

use this to figure out ur GMT
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/

F* it ur 1hrs before me so ur

-5GMT

[PershsNhpios]

There is only one rule I want to propose;

That is Romani player can use only Polybian reforms.

I recently had a terrible MP game with Burakuku - terrible because my graphics card had a heart attack and the framerate went down to less than 0.1 per second. The actual ping and internet lag was fine.
Ironic.

In any case, I was allowed to use Imperial Romans against his Carthage.

Even though I was paralyzed, and he had all my units completely surrounded, and killed my general - not even one of my cohorts wavered until I admitted defeat.
I could have won by just sitting there watching frame by paralyzed frame.

So anything more than Polybians are overpowered for multiplayer I think - it takes away from the strategy - although perhaps an ahistorical use of Post-Marian cavalry can be implemented.

Apart from that - I see absolutely no reason for any of the rules proposed except the one limiting the number of specific troop units.

Who is going to enforce all these rules?

I won't be, I'll be having fun and enjoying the variety of players.

[NeoSpartan]

huh??? Glenn did u try reducing your graphics settings????????

[Power2the1]

I know what Glenn is talking about. I, too, was playing as the Marian Romans against hannibal who was Carthage. I think I had 1 cohort rout and a few auxiliary troops and thats it. I was playing historical too, with one 1st cohort and 9 regular cohorts.

Although I won that battle, I proposed afterwards that no Romans be allowed. We both agreed. It was so one sided that even I, who won, found little enjoyment in it becasue it was so one sided.

Just something to consider.

[NeoSpartan]

wowowowowowowowow wait a minute wait a minute now...

listen I disagre with that.

I think, and I say I think. That maybe hannibal forgot one thing.

Post marian cavarly ain't that great. (hint)

Marians are actually weaker than they were in .81x (unless EB team did something to their stats in 1.1, which I highly doubt). As a matter of fact I got beat 3x in a row by POLYBIAN romani because their cavarly was much stronger. (I always played at the Gauls)

[Emperor Burakuku]

I don't know what to say... Carthage against Imperials with 45k money sucks really bad. Bur Carthago, imho, sucks in bug money games. In a 15-30k game... don't know. Plus, like Neo said, the advantage is their calv. Strike, strike, and agian strike. Plus, that I don't think that imperials are invincible, not at all.

[PershsNhpios]

I sense a great deal of proposition and a great lack of resolution.

[Ibrahim]

looky here. Its EB's first tourney- of course there is more propositions then resolutions. anyways, I already have it planned out. Ive PM'ed you.

[Ibrahim]

never mind sorry. but I'm still prepared.

[king hannibal]

I disagree also I think romans aren't that unbalance I just try and use ele to win didn't work though he had a line of phalanx which pin my down and came around hard on one flank with most of his army broke that flank and then it was a general rout good battle

[Emperor Burakuku]

Don't know really. I say 1st we play any faction, it's the 1st tournament, and afterwards, we can add some new rules, right? Like... instead of 10 imperial cohorts (9 + 1 1st cohort) we can restrict to 8 (7 + 1 cohort)... or something like this. Don't know, we'll find something right? I mean the imperial army it's quite expensive but very good. But it's not invincible plus that I'm sure that with time, ppl will find ways to defeat them.