Problem making money

**Armenia_Byzantium** · 05-06-2008, 22:53

I seem to have a problem making money, especially with any faction other than egypt.

So far I tried byzantine and spain, and I always seem to be in debt.

I practically done trade rights with many factions and i built markets and trade ports, I scattered my merchants all over the place on valuable resources and im still in debt.

But with egypt, im basically filthy rich and i dont have many trade rights as i do on my other campaigns. But i have taken all settlements in the middle east, including baghdad, antoich and jerusalem.

I dont really get it

can some one enlighten me on some other things that i should be looking into to increase my profit for my other campaigns?

**Rhyfelwyr** · 05-06-2008, 23:13

The early game is crucial in developing your economy. Disband any units you don't need (often ships, they are expensive to upkeep), and make sure you have militia units in your cities for the free upkeep.

I usually build farming buildings first, since they are the best source of income early on (save mines in some cases), and give growth bonuses which are very useful. Then build markets, don't bother too much for merchants except in Timbuktu. Always build Ports and especially the Merchant Wharf line of buildings as soon as possible.

I also tend to play with low taxes early on. The growth bonuses they give will soon be far more beneficial than a little extra income early on.

**PBI** · 05-07-2008, 02:17

The best way to make money is to sack cities; especially in vanilla this makes you so much money that it almost makes economic development pointless. Eventually once your empire is a certain size you will start to make much more money than you can spend. Large empires also have various economies of scale, e.g. they need fewer unprofitable castles, and more cities can be left with a minimal garrison. Thus, the best way I've found to make money as any faction is to be on the offensive somewhere pretty much all the time; use the sacking money to tide you over until your empire is developed enough to be profitable.

**Armenia_Byzantium** · 05-07-2008, 02:21

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

I also tend to play with low taxes early on. The growth bonuses they give will soon be far more beneficial than a little extra income early on.

can you illustrate a bit more on the above, so lowering taxes will help grow population you mean.

because at times i get this high squalor rate, I believe by increasing tax rate i try to lower squalor as well.

**Armenia_Byzantium** · 05-07-2008, 02:24

Would the upkeep on say a heavy cavalry be any different if its inside a settlement or outside? Is that the whole point of minimal garrison?

Originally Posted by Poor Bloody Infantry

The best way to make money is to sack cities; especially in vanilla this makes you so much money that it almost makes economic development pointless. Eventually once your empire is a certain size you will start to make much more money than you can spend. Large empires also have various economies of scale, e.g. they need fewer unprofitable castles, and more cities can be left with a minimal garrison. Thus, the best way I've found to make money as any faction is to be on the offensive somewhere pretty much all the time; use the sacking money to tide you over until your empire is developed enough to be profitable.

**PBI** · 05-07-2008, 10:38

Heavy cavalry don't benefit from being in cities but any militia units do: Each city can support a certain number of militia units for free i.e. no upkeep at all. You can tell which units are not paying upkeep because on the unit tab their unit card will be shaded blue.

The advantage of having a large empire is that many of your cities will be far from your borders and highly unlikely to be attacked; therefore there is no need to garrison them with good troops for defense. It is still necessary to maintain a small garrison to keep the peace but you can generally manage with just the free-upkeep militia units. Thus you can essentially keep the city garrisonned free of charge.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 05-07-2008, 13:48

Originally Posted by Paul_of_Byzantine

can you illustrate a bit more on the above, so lowering taxes will help grow population you mean.

because at times i get this high squalor rate, I believe by increasing tax rate i try to lower squalor as well.

Squalor will only rise if you fail to upgrade your walls in time and if you do not build health buildings such as Town Halls etc. Having low taxes will often more than double growth in the early game, compared to having high taxes. There's a difference of 0.5% growth between each tax level. Its not like MTW, where you always set taxes to as high as possible.

Also remember to make high Chilvarly Generals governors, +0.5% growth for each chivalry helmet they have.

**Yaropolk** · 05-07-2008, 14:25

Click on the pot of gold in your lower right corner to see your finances. You will be surprised how much your army costs you. I try to keep it around 10%-15% of my gross income. Pretty much do what other said - garrison cities with militia only (city units). Don't pay soldiers to sit around. If you've got 5-6 units in one castle, go sack something. Be smart about what you train. Don't train it unless you are planning to use it and check the maintainance cost. Spearmen cost ~100 / turn, and knights ~175-250.

As an aside, Sherwood forresters are ~280 for a 30 man unit! That's almost 10 pieces of gold per year per brigand. I mean come on, my inns and brothels should be returning 90% of that back to me!

**Anonymous II** · 05-08-2008, 01:56

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

Also remember to make high Chilvarly Generals governors, +0.5% growth for each chivalry helmet they have.

In the beginning of the game, I find it to be very useful to keep the King (if he's chivalrous) in a city (not a castle), to promote growth.

Growth of cities is the most important thing for your economy early on unless you go expansion as mentioned above (sacking settlements are very profitable indeed). Therefore, Paul of Byzantium, I would recommend you to build farms (farms earn you money too, "farming income", in addition to promote growth) and keep low taxes in cities that potentially can become money makers through trade (like Toledo if you convert the castle to a city - and you should, Valencia should be your castle).

Squalor is never a problem in your home region (can be in your middle eastern empire far from home though), unless you fail to upgrade walls when the time is ripe, as mentioned by Rhyfelwyr. Building town hall-series and city barracks-series will also reduce squalor (or outweigh it) and promote growth. It's like a Kinder Surpise - you get multiple benefits in one package!

And the final tip: Don't waste money on merchants! Before they brings back the 200 florins they cost you, they'll probably will be overtaken by some foreign merchant anyway.

**Armenia_Byzantium** · 05-08-2008, 20:59

Hey guys,

I followed what you guys told me to do.

Im earning quite fair amount now.

I have converted a couple of settlements to cities. I sacked all settlements in north west africa including timbuktu ( man do i earn alot there! ), that place is a gold mine indeed!

I destroyed the moor faction in the process, I dealt a heavy blow to portugal and gave them a crushing defeat when i killed their king in an ambush. Now they do what ever i want them to do basically. But in no time I will finish them completely.