General Discussion Thread

[Tamur]

This thread is for any of the participants in the Mead Hall Writers' Society writing group to post up comments, observations, and general chit-chat about the lessons, writing in general, or what have you.

Those who are joining us new, feel free to post here and introduce yourself!

[Monk]

When I saw you were moving ahead with the Workgroup I took the liberty of sticking the original brainstorm thread. Hope you don't mind.

[Tamur]

No problem at all, thanks in fact It looks like we've a good-sized group but it's always helpful to get more exposure!

[Tamur]

A quick note on the observation assignment: make sure to follow the First Rule of the Artist: Don't get caught staring!

...unless you want to, of course but with police and drug-dealers, it's usually a really bad idea. I don't know how many times I've been caught staring while clandestinely drawing portraits, but it's always tough to cover up, and often incredibly embarrassing.

[woad&fangs]

Next time you are in a restaurant, market, grocery store, or any other public place where individuals, couples, or groups gather and interact, jot down your observations in a notebook.

In one paragraph, describe a loner's looks and behaviour.

In another, describe the looks and interactions of a pair or group of people.

In the third paragraph, describe how anyone with an official role interacts with everyone else. This could be a waiter, checker, stall owner, police, street cleaner, match official, etc.

Good first assignment I'm an actor so I actually do this all the time, 'though I usually just remember instead of writing my observations down. I'll try to do this assignment if I can find the time to observe people.

[scottishranger]

Good first topic, though damn you for making me actually go out and talk to people!

[Tamur]

Well done Tim!

Just a note to remind everyone - you've precisely 12 hours to post your writing for Lesson 1! Gah!

Don't be shy -- this is the internet. I'll be posting materials for Lesson 2 later today.

I've really enjoyed reading the posts added so far, and hoping for more, and a good discussion to follow.

[Timsup2nothin]

With twelve hours to deadline this may be a little late, but I have a suggestion for my fellow aspiring writers from my journalism experience.

Learn to read what you write.

When I was told this I looked at my editor like an extra head had sprouted from his shoulder, so he explained. When you read what someone else wrote, and they have words that are just jumbled out of order (which happens to everyone at least occasionally because we think so much faster than we write), you are just stoppered by it because it makes no sense. You think the writer never bothered to even look over what they wrote, but they probably did. Most people can run their eyes over what they themselves have written and their mind sees what they meant, not what they wrote.

I promptly took back the copy I had given him and read it. Repeatedly. I was really amazed when on the fourth pass I was still finding words out of order, mismatched tenses and forms, and other 'glaring' errors. Fortunately for me, with practice, I learned to separate my reader from the writer and I can usually read my own work with almost the same eye that I have for someone else's, so now I can get most things sorted out in one pass.

I talked about beating a deadline by three hours. That was in print. When I made the transition to internet journalism I frequently had ninety minutes from event to deadline, so beating it by three hours would be impossible, and my editor had thirty minutes from submit to post. If I gave them bad copy they would have no choice but to replace me.

[Tamur]

Just closed the Assignment 1 thread. Sorry to those who almost but not quite hit the deadline, but I need to print off the posts to give to my offline editor/helper in this process. Definitely join us in the Lesson 2 assignment!

And thanks to everyone who contributed.

edit: had planned to post reviewer comments by 18.00 GMT today but it's not to be. My outside help had to put of our review till tonight, so it will be GMT morning on Thursday before reviews are up this week.

[Timsup2nothin]

I have to ask, since in eastern cultures the family name is given first...what is the relationship between Offline Help and Offline Participant?

[Tamur]

hehe! Ah, coincidental. My offline participant isn't related to my offline help. Very funny thought though. I should gather up a few more and we could have an entire Offline side for a game of football!

[Tamur]

Going along with this week's theme, I was talking with a friend a couple of days ago about a story she's writing, and how there is a big disconnect at times between imagining a scene and writing it. It's inevitable that details will be lost in the translation. We talked for a while about strategies to limit the damage done by this loss.

The best one we could come up with is to examine every word in an initial scene description and be conscious of what's being left out -- and ask questions about it like whether the dropped detail could add anything to the unveiling of character, or plot, and whether the details included *are* necessary. If not, is it really worth the reader's time to know about it?

It yeilds good results, but it's fairly labour-intensive. Anyone have an easier way to deal with this?

[Tamur]

We arent' quite to it yet, but this article shows how character building details can work well in a news story. The moments and expressions picked out by the writer are master strokes at creating an image of two very different people.

[Bartholemew-Varath]

I sorry that i missed the last few assignments, i was busy with exams and WoW, but i think im back now, so ill probably be writing in the next assignment

[Tamur]

Sounds great Bartholemew-Varath! I should be able to post next week's materials in a couple of hours.

[Bibbin]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and.... sorry if my writing is horrible, this is my first time doing it. I have written in stories of my own but this is my first time posting something on the writing site.

[Tamur]

Hi Bibbin and welcome to the Mead Hall and the Org, glad you're here. And don't worry, we're all learning how to write better.

Thanks for posting already in the assignment thread, it's great to have another writer on board!

[Tamur]

Just a note to say, sorry for being late with the lesson 4 material. My usual group work time was demolished this week but I will be putting up materials tomorrow, along with the #3 comments.

Sorry for the hang time.

[Tamur]

Just a note... if anyone needs examples of anything talked about in the lesson 5 material, let me know. I wanted to add examples but it had grown so long already...

[MountainTroll]

Hi all,
I am new to the guild, but avoided the "say hello in the entrance hall" post. I thought I'd slink around the edge of the walls, until I got to the Mead hall, and say my hellos here.
(This is me slinking = )

I have watched others play all the games since the Shogun days, but am not a gamer myself. (Were there gasps in the room at that admission?)

I am interested in writing though, and heard about Tamur's workshop. I thought I'd give it a go. I really liked Assignment 4, by the way. It was a challenge to use objects and weather in two totally different ways. It was like a puzzle. I thought it was fun.

I hope to get to know the personalities behind the avatars, and hope to improve my writing skills. Thanks for letting me hang out in the Mead Hall!

[Ironsword]

Hi Mountaintroll!

I really enjoy the writing side of things too. The two great merits of the MHWS is that you get feedback on your own prose and also get to see how others tackled the task too. So more's the better!

[Timsup2nothin]

To me 'not a gamer' isn't so much an admission as an eye opening concept, as in 'wow, what could I get done if I were not a gamer?'

Welcome to the board and MHWS!!

[Tamur]

Hello MountainTroll, and welcome! That was fairly sneaky to skip through the entrance hall -- Martok must have been dozing.

I hope you enjoy your stay, and thanks for posting for this last lesson - great writing intro too!

[Tamur]

Just a note to everyone to say: I will be away from the keyboard and the Org through Wednesday evening next week. I was tempted to post the next assignment before I leave, but have talked myself out of that since this current assignment should be enough to worry about without more distraction.

This means that the next assignment will be up on Thursday next week, and the assignment 5 posting thread won't be locked till Wednesday evening.

Happy weekend to everyone.

[Prince Cobra]

I'm happy that this is active. I'll join again once the cursed exams are over.

[Tamur]

We'll look forward to seeing you Stephen, and best of luck with exams.

[Tamur]

You shall work, writing slaves!

Seriously, glad you're enjoying the ride. I perhaps should have given people more of a warning at the front end of this, that it wouldn't be a pat-on-the-back sort of experience. I do hope it's enjoyable even if it's a stretch at times.

And Ironsword, sorry I somehow missed your post a bit ago...

After reading assignment 6, I think I've got too far ahead of myself in assignment 5...

Yours was definitely a very complete backstory! Nicely done. I'll have comments up by about 06 GMT tomorrow, but yes, you went well above the call of duty In your case, I'd suggest taking a different character for assignment 6.

[Timsup2nothin]

Completely back on topic. I have a feeling that I'm on track here, but I may be just heading off into a field to become a jumble of boxcars. If so, slap me back in the right general direction please.

With this character, use each of the four numbered techniques above (summary, habit, self-portrait, physical) to introduce your character.

After much flailing, I have seized on the word 'introduce'. In introducing the character I may or may not include everything I have in his backstory. In fact, upon further flailing, I probably won't.

My purpose is to present the character in a way that doesn't conflict with the backstory, since that will eventually come out. Also, most importantly, in a way that engages a reader in the character. Probably not jumping directly into the character's conflicts before getting the reader engaged, so leave them out when introducing the character. Hmmmm. My feeling that I was on track is fading fast, but I might be getting on track now.

Sorry for blatantly brainstorming all over the place here, but I really needed that! Again, if I am completely off track please say so...

[Tamur]

Yes yes, you're perfectly correct. I'm going to edit the lesson material right now to clear that up. Thanks for pointing the muddy waters out!

When introducing a character for this exercise, don't attempt to introduce disconnects or backstory unless they fit well. Your introduction of the character can be completely separate from both disconnects and backstory, and should simply give the "flavour" of the character. It should act as a teaser, leaving your reader in a state of wishing he or she knew more.