Screenies

[Furious Mental]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=164359

Jeah!

Game looks nice, although I certainly I hope it isn't being designed on the basis that every battle should be fought like that. I mean, troops in column exchanging musket fire?

[Raz]

I mean, troops in column exchanging musket fire?

What's wrong with that? In any case, if they are in-game screenshots and not promotional-heavily-edited-in-photoshop screenies, then that really is candy to my eyes.

Edit: On closer inspection... I'm a little worried, why is it that there's cavalry waltzing out into the midst of the firefight? Also, agreed that the units look a bit odd in their formation... They look like they've come straight out of a roman training ground the way they are deployed...

[Csargo]

In any case, if they are in-game screenshots and not promotional-heavily-edited-in-photoshop screenies, then that really is candy to my eyes.

Were you expecting something else?

[rajpoot]

Well, they look nice, I specially like the smoke and shadows. Anyhow, a sign that ETW is still breathing, and CA hasn't switched over to make Tellthegamersnothing Total War.

Edit :
1. The battlefield in the zoomed out screen does not look any more expansive than the ones in M2TW
2. Like Raz has mentioned, the formations seem as rigid and unnatural as in RTW.

[Furious Mental]

Coumns were basically for rapid movement across the battlefield and charging. The 4-2 man line maximised firepower. This was central to infantry tactics throughout the period and if the game doesn't reflect this land battles will just be plain ridiculous.

[Matt_Lane]

CA have already said we will get column, line and square formations. The troops in the screen shots aren't in any of these, they are just grouped together but apart from this I'm well happy. I like the look at the lighting and shading (My graphics card isn't though). The smoke looks good and I was pleased to see Horse Artillery included. Unit size looks to be about the same as M2TW although I had hoped we might see sergeants as well as officers.

[PBI]

Bit surprised that the soldiers all seem to have different uniforms. This made sense in M2TW, when I believe each man was responsible for providing his own equipment but surely by the 18th century uniforms were, well, uniform.

[Furious Mental]

The ratio of width to length in those pictures is that of a 'closed column'/'colonne serre'. Despite what the word 'column' would suggest, a column could be wider than it was long. By definition a 'line' is 1 to 3 ranks deep, or 4 staggered ranks- the whole purpose of it is to enable all ranks to fire simultaneously. There were probably still some armies that were still using matchlocks and compensating for the slow rate of fire by using deep formations and countermarching, but by the time the game began Gustav Adolphus's linear tactics were well established all over Europe. In any case I see no evidence of countermarching in those screenshots.

But apparently 'lines' and columns' are not distinct formations after all and it is up to you drag and drop them. So I strongly suspect that 'column' will offer none of its historical benefits in terms of momentum and shock on attack, morale, mobility, manoueverability, or speed of conversion into square, most likely making it completely worthless.

[CBR]

Coumns were basically for rapid movement across the battlefield and charging. The 4-2 man line maximised firepower. This was central to infantry tactics throughout the period and if the game doesn't reflect this land battles will just be plain ridiculous.

CA has so far never managed to make realistic troop movement and deployment in earlier titles so why should it be different in ETW.

Im sure there is a column special formation with uber bayonet/melee bonus but column for movement and maneuvering...lets just say I will be pleasantly surprised if that happens.


CBR

[Furious Mental]

They have already said that there isn't. Apparently a 'column' is just a line that you don't bother to drag out very far. No different to the way it is now then.

[Veho Nex]

Time for another upgrade....

[Rhyfelwyr]

Wandarah, what do you think of those screenshots?

They look nice graphically. Although that first screenshot isn't exactly how I imagined a ETW-era battle. Are they trying to form a Roman Manipular?

Also didn't the troops in the front row lie down. Then second row kneeling, third row standing? Plus the formations seem strangely deep.

[CBR]

Also didn't the troops in the front row lie down. Then second row kneeling, third row standing? Plus the formations seem strangely deep.

Early part of this era the front rank was kneeling (at least according to drill) but later on it wasnt used.


CBR

[Wandarah]

Wandarah, what do you think of those screenshots?

They look nice graphically. Although that first screenshot isn't exactly how I imagined a ETW-era battle. Are they trying to form a Roman Manipular?

Also didn't the troops in the front row lie down. Then second row kneeling, third row standing? Plus the formations seem strangely deep.

i think they look totally sweet.

the formations can be adjusted as they've always been able to in the past.

once again, i would like to reiterate - they look totally sweet.

[Martok]

Here's a more direct link, by the way:

GamesRadar

[Ulstan]

I mean, troops in column exchanging musket fire?

They did this right up to the American Civil War, then discovered that Napoleon era tactics with rifled muskets meant mass carnage.

Certainly for the time period the game covers massed infantry is entirely appropriate.

The british were really the only power that favored the long thin lines of troops - other nations would go for more heavily massed formations. See the endless debates over the british line vs french column formations during the napoleonic wars.

[CBR]

They did this right up to the American Civil War, then discovered that Napoleon era tactics with rifled muskets meant mass carnage.

Certainly for the time period the game covers massed infantry is entirely appropriate.

The british were really the only power that favored the long thin lines of troops - other nations would go for more heavily massed formations. See the endless debates over the british line vs french column formations during the napoleonic wars.

Uhm no. A battalion in column were not meant for exchanging fire. It was not used like that in Age of Reason, Napoleonic Wars nor American Civil War.

The Brits used lines and columns pretty much like everyone else did at the time of the Napoleonic Wars. The main difference was a more extensive use of 2 rank than 3 rank line.

For more general info:
http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/in..._tactics_4.htm

And about line versus column
http://www.napoleon-series.org/milit...a/c_maida.html


CBR

[Furious Mental]

Yes. Up until the mid 17th century musketeers and arquebusiers typically fought in deep columns because it offered better defense both through depth and proximity to pikemen, and combined with rotating fire allowed them to keep up a steady barrage. However by the time Empire begins this mode of firing had been given up completely for the 4-2 rank line, which maximised battlefield coverage and the firepower of handier, faster reloading flintlocks; the ability to fire in units from platoon all the way up to battalion meant that they could choose constant fire or a massive devastating volley.

[Ulstan]

Uhm no. A battalion in column were not meant for exchanging fire. It was not used like that in Age of Reason, Napoleonic Wars nor American Civil War.

The Brits used lines and columns pretty much like everyone else did at the time of the Napoleonic Wars. The main difference was a more extensive use of 2 rank than 3 rank line.

The formations pictured in the screenshots are not columns at all, but lines. Their depth is entirely appropriate for the period (early 1700's) depending on what the formation was trying to accomplish. Only the british, as I said, specialized in the very thin very long line to maximize fire power. Other nations went with much more massed formations which would be closer to squares in shape. And they did indeed exchange musketry fire while in these formations.

Of course, musketry fire was not very effective and was not the primary means of winning battle. Typically forces didn't advance solely for the purpose of exchanging fire at all, but rather to charge or repel the enemy and sieze a key piece of ground.

The napoleonic wars were not fought as a series of long thing lines of troops engaging in extended musketry duels, and it would be historically inaccurate to portray it as such.

[CBR]

The formations pictured in the screenshots are not columns at all, but lines.

Didnt say they were.

Their depth is entirely appropriate for the period (early 1700's) depending on what the formation was trying to accomplish. Only the british, as I said, specialized in the very thin very long line to maximize fire power.

The info I have on ranks used by various armies in WSS:
British/Dutch: 3
Austrian/Bavarian: 4
Various German states: 3-4
French: 4-5 (still using fire by rank)

Other nations went with much more massed formations which would be closer to squares in shape.

Battalions/regiments stopped looking similar to squares many decades earlier.

Of course, musketry fire was not very effective and was not the primary means of winning battle. Typically forces didn't advance solely for the purpose of exchanging fire at all, but rather to charge or repel the enemy and sieze a key piece of ground.

And typically units engaged in firecombat and was stuck doing that as it was difficult to get the men forward after they started shooting. That doesnt mean there werent charges and even melee combat, but trying to go in against an undisrupted enemy generally meant a quick defeat. But a charge was an excellent way of routing a demoralised enemy that would otherwise have stayed put and kept on firing.


CBR

[BananaBob]

I'm interested in seeing some Jainessaries or other Ottoman troops.

[Africanvs]

I wonder what kind of beast will be needed to run this.

[Pope Gregorius]

No! cuz you know of course that wasnt that the whole point of napoleonic warfare at all....

[Spankfurt]

Now I can balete all the p0rn off my computer :)

[aftzengeier]

Some screens and a video I've never seen before - excuse me if they aren't new!

Link!

[Ticu]

Dude, I love you for this! Thanks

[Mailman653]

Nice video, wonder if that means you can challenge and be challenged to duels by other generals/leaders.

[Divinus Arma]

Some screens and a video I've never seen before - excuse me if they aren't new!

Link!

Dude. You rock. Thank you!

Now THIS is the kind of new information I have been waiting for.

Way to go CA! God, I hope you get this AI right. I've been playing Rome and its mods since day one after playing MTW before that. You guys have a great opportunity to achieve something amazing here.

[Csargo]

I agree completely