Installation Discussion

[TinCow]

SS 4.1 seems to be winning pretty convincingly in the confirmation poll. I understand the concerns about CTDs, but they seem very rare and can be worked around even when they occur. I think we'll be fine without worrying about this.

I would like to hammer out the other changes we are going to use and get them working. First on the list is the AI. SS 4.1 uses Ultimate AI 1.5 for the Campaign AI and Darth Mod 1.4B for the Battle AI. Are these ok? Are there better AI mods out now that we should be using?

*Draft Installation Directions*

1) Install a clean copy of M2TW.
2) Install the M2TW 1.2 Patch.
3) Install the M2TW 1.3 Patch.
4) Install Stainless Steel 4.0.
5) Install the Stainless Steel 4.1 Patch.
6) *AI Mods, to be decided*
7) *Custom mod for the game, for stuff like RBG recruiting, etc.*

[Privateerkev]

Can we get directions on how to have multiple copies of M2TW on your computer?

I have Kingdoms and patch 1.5 and I am not going back.

However I do have tons of HD space and don't mind having multiple copies of the game on my computer.

Please make directions as "noob proof" as possible for those like me who are computer illiterate.

[Zim]

We found out in the Grand Campaign hotseat that vanilla saves are compatible between 1.3 and 1.5, so it might not be necessary.

Are we sure about the ai mods included in 4.1? The list of changes between the 4.0 and 4.1 says this:

- Real Combat 1.21
- Lusted's battle AI
- Vanilla campaign AI

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=110425

[TinCow]

Hm, that's strange. Under The Campaign AI it says "Ultimate AI 1.5" and under Battles is says "Darth Mod 1.4B battle AI and physics." We'll need to look into this.

[Zim]

Scroll down a bit to this section to see changes from the 4.1 patch.

Stainless Steel 4.1 Patch Features

4.1 Changes & Bug fixes

Hm, that's strange. Under The Campaign AI it says "Ultimate AI 1.5" and under Battles is says "Darth Mod 1.4B battle AI and physics." We'll need to look into this.

[Privateerkev]

We found out in the Grand Campaign hotseat that vanilla saves are compatible between 1.3 and 1.5, so it might not be necessary.

Right but I think SS 4 only works with vanilla and not Kingdoms. Would like confirmation on this though. Which means I would either have to uninstall Kingdoms (no way), or dual install. (which I have no problem with as long as I get a little help.)

[Zim]

I've had no problem with it at all and I have Kingdoms.

Right but I think SS 4 only works with vanilla and not Kingdoms. Would like confirmation on this though. Which means I would either have to uninstall Kingdoms (no way), or dual install. (which I have no problem with as long as I get a little help.)

[Privateerkev]

I've had no problem with it at all and I have Kingdoms.

awesome...

[OverKnight]

One thing we should remember to test is to see if saved game files are compatible between everyone who plays.

I know that was an issue when we changed from 1.1 to 1.2 in KotR. 1.1 saves were compatible with people who had 1.2, but saves made in 1.2 were not backwards compatible.

From the sound of it, some people just have M2 and others have M2 with Kingdoms. We might run into similar problems.

[deguerra]

I think so long as everyone has the lateset Medieval 2 patch (1.3 or 1.5?) it shouldnt matter who has kingdoms or not, and it should be fine using a non-kingdoms or a kingdoms installation. That's just my understanding of it, and dont hold me to it

[Zim]

One of my Grand Campaign players has 1.5, and his save didn't cause any problems for 1.3 users, so as long as everything has 1.3+ and we're using a non Kingdoms mod I think we're ok.

I think so long as everyone has the lateset Medieval 2 patch (1.3 or 1.5?) it shouldnt matter who has kingdoms or not, and it should be fine using a non-kingdoms or a kingdoms installation. That's just my understanding of it, and dont hold me to it

[AussieGiant]

While I'm concerned over the CTD's I think the outline you have given TC is the best available option.

FH's vanilla mod is still an interesting option though. But I'm just playing devils advocate.

[TinCow]

The main problem with Vanilla mod is the lack of an expanded map. SS 4.1 adds 50+ provinces to the game, which will probably benefit our game more than any other single feature.

[Ferret]

and the titles will be really cool, adding a few small powers to the FL. But yeah with the amount of land required to get players up the ranks we need a big map.

[FactionHeir]

You guys really need to read my forum

The new map should be out within the next two to three weeks with almost 200 regions, almost completely historic and with more resources.

[TinCow]

I just looked, but I don't see any info on that. A link would be useful. If you could somehow get your hands on the SS 6.0 map, that would be great. That map is (IMHO) about as perfect for our game as it's possible to get.

Would installing BBB on top of your mod screw everything up?

[FactionHeir]

Its somewhere buried in my 0.92 worklog. Irishron is currently working on it.
Will make comparisons possibly if you want.

BBB....may have some major conflicts but I can probably just take the titles and leave the rest as it is in my mod for pbm purposes. It depends on the final region count and naming really

[TinCow]

Any chance of getting some previews of the new map? A major bonus of using Vanillamod is that you're right here to deal with any problems that we may encounter. The main reason I have been voting against it is the lack of a larger map, though I also really like the BBB trait 'supply' system, as it's a fun and creative method of limiting expansion. The titles are nice, but less important IMO. If you could create some kind of supplemental mod to add the BBB supply system (w/ or w/o titles) into our game, I would be willing to change my vote and wait a couple weeks for your new map to be finished.

[AussieGiant]

I see your point TC and it is a major factor, I agree.

I just can't get passed how important it would be to have FH right on top of things if anything happens.

if we can get FH to incorporate a few of the characteristics we like from the SS side of things then we'd be in great shape...I understand what I just said FH, (it's easy to say and much harder to actually do), but how possible would that be?

i.e. Map, titles, and supply system?

[FactionHeir]

Map depends on how fast my mapper works, but I think 2-3 weeks is a realistic estimate for a first version and possibly another 1-2 to flesh things out properly if anything is missing or to fix some settlement names, win conditions, mongol spawning points, horde targets and new resources.
That is a relatively long period I admit, but some here were saying they can't make an early start anyway?

Supply/Titles. I can probably import supply system with almost no problems. Title system would be more difficult due to it being a different map and thus different region count and names. I can add generic titles though so that if you hold a settlement we can give you a certain title or we can give you title ancs according to your ingame PBM title.

The Map is for the general version but the supply/title changes will be a separate PBM version (to overwrite exisiting files).

Any other changes you want you will need to tell me early so I have time to consider them.

Btw, if you have been playing 0.92 note its currently in a beta stage still as I have been very hard pressed for time to test play it (I am but one modder/tester). It works pretty well overall and is stable but I'm still trying to improve strat map AI behavior more after some recent money changes to rebels which made it become a bit slothful compared to 0.91. Actually that won't be much of a problem once the new map is out because the normal vanilla map has some pretty bad pathfinding (especially for british isles and russia) which make the AI difficult to control using any means.

[Zim]

My first choice was always BC, so I don't have any big attachment to SS (would have picked Lands to Conquer if I were asked to pick a mod that wasn't a total conversion).

Still, SS received far more votes than the other mods. It seems to me as if the mod earned its usage. I wouldn't change mods unless SS lost on another poll or the CTD issues were big enough to warrant an executive decision from Tincow.

I also am not enamored with the idea of waiting another 3-5 weeks but with some players wanting more time I guess that doesn't matter much (and a larger map really is the feature that would add the most to the game, so I can't really argue with time spent on that. ).

If we do switch to vanillamod, we might have to reopen the faction poll (at least for the ERE and France). As much as I love the ERE, I fully sympathize with anyone that hates their vanilla skins.

[TinCow]

3 to 5 weeks (at a minimum) is definitely a long time to wait, considering that we're almost done with the testing and rules discussion.

[AussieGiant]

Thanks for the update FH. That time frame is rather long.

SS 4.1 does seem to be the direction to move in I believe.

[FactionHeir]

3 to 5 weeks (at a minimum) is definitely a long time to wait, considering that we're almost done with the testing and rules discussion.

At a maximum. Minimum would be sometime this or next week fully done. It really depends on how fast my mapper works on it.
Right now the map is more or less done, just needs some shrinking on the south and east and moving some settlements around. Its basic outline is that of an early Regions and Provinces Mod version.

[Ituralde]

*Draft Installation Directions*

1) Install a clean copy of M2TW.
2) Install the M2TW 1.2 Patch.
3) Install the M2TW 1.3 Patch.
4) Install Stainless Steel 4.0.
5) Install the Stainless Steel 4.1 Patch.
6) *AI Mods, to be decided*
7) *Custom mod for the game, for stuff like RBG recruiting, etc.*

Just a short point concerning 3).
I'm a little confused, because the installation instructions for SS 4.0/4.1 say that M2TW 1.2 is needed.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=110425

So do we need 1.3 now, or 1.2? Maybe that's the reason why the tooltips didn't show up in my SS version, which I installed on top of 1.2, following the official instructions.

Just curious.

Ituralde

[TinCow]

1.3 is simply a compatability patch for Kingdoms. AFAIK, it shouldn't impact the game in any other way. We're simply using it as a convenience for people who may also have Kingdoms installed on their system, just as we did with KOTR.

[TinCow]

So, are we happy with the AI packages bundled with SS 4.1?

[Ferret]

I am

[Zim]

Did we ever check into the possible issue I mentioned before?

Are we sure about the ai mods included in 4.1? The list of changes between the 4.0 and 4.1 says this:

Stainless Steel 4.1 Patch Features

4.1 Changes & Bug fixes

- Real Combat 1.21
- Lusted's battle AI
- Vanilla campaign AI

Scroll down a bit to see the section showing changes from 4.0 to 4.1 patch.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=110425

[TinCow]

Did we ever check into the possible issue I mentioned before?

I'm looking into it now:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=166512

Once we get an answer, I'll move forward with the last few details needed to get the game running. We're going to need a custom made mod that will properly enable the RBGs. We need them to cost 1 florin, have 1 florin upkeep, be recruitable from every level of city and castle walls, allow 2-3 to be recruited from each settlement per turn, and replenish the recruitment pool to max every turn. Any volunteers?