Punch through the center, yao

[General Appo]

Actually, punching through the middle was much easier in Vanilla, where units routs and die at an incredible rate. Had Cannae been played on RTW the Hastati would likely have killed off the Gauls even before Hannibal´s cavalry had engaged the Romans.

[Parallel Pain]

In both cases a flanking manouver was the decisive move.

At Issus Alexander just rushed straight forward and mashed through the enemy left center with companion + hypaspists, he didn't even try to move around the flank. The hole he created he exploited by hitting everywhere else of the Persian line from the side and rear.

At Gaugamela while Alexander hammer-anvil-ed the Persian Center, broke through, and again swamped all the other part of the Persian line. No move around the flank.

You mean Austerlitz? The French attack actualy hit what was the allied right wing because most of the allied forces had allready moved SW where they were pinned by Davout between Pratzen and Satschan.

Technically, the Allied right was further north fighting Lanne's V Corps.

As for the game, I guess me playing VH battles with Darth AI formation mod makes punching a lot harder.

[chenkai11]

Why not use the Trojans flaming balls to punch a hole?

[pezhetairoi]

Is that a joke?

And where're you from, chenkai? Your name sounds Chinese. Haven't seen you around on the EB org so i'll just say welcome!

[Maion Maroneios]

I have recently discovered that, in my battles as Makedonia, in almost every case I come close to losing with one of my main armies, it is bacause the enemy breaks trough my phalanx center. That is why I am experimenting with a different army composition, with some reserve troops. You see, as soon as your solid wall of spears is broken, it is 99% sure you're going to suffer heavy casualties.

[chenkai11]

Is that a joke?

And where're you from, chenkai? Your name sounds Chinese. Haven't seen you around on the EB org so i'll just say welcome!

It may sound like a joke, but during ancient war some "tools" were used in warfare. I just wonder why RTW doesn't offer that option? Instead they give us the flaming pigs.

I am always at the TWC, rarely posting here, just recently active in this forum.

And why do you ask where I was from? Wasn't my name sounds like Koreans? Are you Chinese?

And are you serious on saying Welcome!?

Too much off topic, sorry, I was just replying to the post.

[pezhetairoi]

Lol, your name sounds chinese. I'm Chinese, so I'm just curious as to which part of the world you come from.

Yes, I was serious. It is considered a polite thing to do around here. :D

I wasn't aware the Trojans used flaming balls though. If you're alluding to that ridiculous Troy movie starring Brad Pitt, I cringe in horror.

[chenkai11]

Lol, your name sounds chinese. I'm Chinese, so I'm just curious as to which part of the world you come from.

Yes, I was serious. It is considered a polite thing to do around here. :D

I wasn't aware the Trojans used flaming balls though. If you're alluding to that ridiculous Troy movie starring Brad Pitt, I cringe in horror.

Yep, I am Chinese living now in the Philippines. You?

Thanks for the welcoming note

Haha, sorry for the flaming balls. But I really believe "tools in flame" were used in battle to create panic and chaos in enemy formation especially by the ancient Chinese.

[pezhetairoi]

Absolutely agree with you on the Chinese part, they really were into using fire as an offensive weapon. The battle of Chi Bi being merely the best application of it. I'm not sure about using it as a morale weapon though, I was under the impression incendiaries were only used as killing tools, or as signal equipment.

I live in Singapore.

And I say the way to break through the centre of an enemy formation that isn't a phalanx is to just push harder on him than he is on you. Yeah.

[Parallel Pain]

At Chi Bi Cao Cao was doomed to loose fire attack or not. But in anycase it was a naval battle and fire is the ban of all ships.

On land it's definately not the main killing force but used to disrupt formation in battle and significant lower their morale for the army to follow up.

Or burn enemy camps and supplies, to more or less the same purpose.

[KhaziOfKalabara]

I have recently discovered that, in my battles as Makedonia, in almost every case I come close to losing with one of my main armies, it is bacause the enemy breaks trough my phalanx center. That is why I am experimenting with a different army composition, with some reserve troops. You see, as soon as your solid wall of spears is broken, it is 99% sure you're going to suffer heavy casualties.

Once the phalanx line of battle breaks, then you are finished. But it only rarely happens to me. Who are you fighting against, with which .exe, and is this with the standard EB formations?

[pezhetairoi]

But then again, also, the phalanx against phalanx thing is a bit buggy, somehow the defender keeps getting eaten up by the attacking phalanx. Which should not be the case, I think, historically, since the defenders should be better able to maintain formation...

[Cambyses]

Battle of Leuctra, anyone, as an example of concentrating force against one area of the enemy line to achieve a frontal breakthrough?

Yes I know it was the end of the battle line , but the victory was not really achieved through flanking.

[pezhetairoi]

It wasn't the end, as it seems. It was just inwards of the flank. They punctured the right wing. But there's no way to duplicate that massive othismos in EB. If there was, our battles would be far different. Just mass your hoplitai fullstack and charge fulltilt into the centre.

[KhaziOfKalabara]

But there's no way to duplicate that massive othismos in EB.

Not directly, but instructing your troops to march to a point on the other side of the enemy line, and then clicking to attack only once the line has been thoroughly interpenetrated, goes someway towards achieving this.