Breaking open the front of a phalanx

[soibean]

Did the phalanx soldiers have a holster with which to hold the weight of the spear, I read somewhere it weighed about 12 pounds so it wasn't that heavy. Yet even so it would surely tire the soldier after a prolonged fight if he had to hold it the entire time.

[QuintusSertorius]

I think the problem is that infiltrating a phalanx is possible, but has the consequence of breaking up your formation. Which matters because then men get isolated and start worrying they're going to be abandoned while everyone else is running.

[Vorian]

Could work if you faced only a spear in from og every man and they kept them still.

However three or four spears were in fromt of every phalangite, so you would have to pass through the first two, to counter another two and another two before you reach the men.

[duncan.gill]

I was thinking of something where they put their heads down and just ran. The pikes would be easy to ward off because of the point of contact being close to the shield and far away from the pike-wielder (i.e. simple leverage).

I would have thought that this could happen pretty quickly - a phalanx (to my way of thinking) would have been extremely effective if a group of men tried to push forward against it with a horizontal shield wall (as the shields would be perpendicular to the spears) but not trying to his shields obliquely.

[Maion Maroneios]

Could work if you faced only a spear in from og every man and they kept them still.

However three or four spears were in fromt of every phalangite, so you would have to pass through the first two, to counter another two and another two before you reach the men.

Exactly my thought. I have read though, that Roman soldiers deployed a certain tactic against Makedonian phalangites, where they ducked under the pikes and crawled until they got under the phalangite's noses. Pretty nifty, I would say, though I think well trained or experienced phalangites could deal with this some way...

[Cartaphilus]

Exactly my thought. I have read though, that Roman soldiers deployed a certain tactic against Makedonian phalangites, where they ducked under the pikes and crawled until they got under the phalangite's noses. Pretty nifty, I would say, though I think well trained or experienced phalangites could deal with this some way...

In Late Middle Age they developed the great two handed swords as a good way to fight the pike unities, and make a breach in the pike wood.

A two meter sword (very rare indeed) has that purpose, break the pikes, not to fight as we seen in movies (like Mel Gibson as William Wallace style).

[Cambyses]

I seem to remember reading that one of the more common methods to deal with phalanxes in early years was to actually grab the pikes and try to pull them off the enemy.

It seems hard to imagine the V shape shield charge would work. Surely any skilled phalnx would not be a static wall formation, but a well drilled group of men thrusting their spears repeatedly at the enemy. With the added reach they could attack from many and different angles, they could also co-ordinate thrusts to prevent any individuals winning through. In essence it would be 6+ phalangites vs 1 enemy warrior at the front

[Lysimachos]

With the added reach they could attack from many and different angles

I find it hard to imagine soldiers in a tightly packed phalanx swinging their several metres long sarissas to the side to attack from a different angle.

[The General]

I seem to remember reading that one of the more common methods to deal with phalanxes in early years was to actually grab the pikes and try to pull them off the enemy.

It seems hard to imagine the V shape shield charge would work. Surely any skilled phalnx would not be a static wall formation, but a well drilled group of men thrusting their spears repeatedly at the enemy. With the added reach they could attack from many and different angles, they could also co-ordinate thrusts to prevent any individuals winning through. In essence it would be 6+ phalangites vs 1 enemy warrior at the front

Directing their attacks against the V-formation pushing into the pike-mass would mean leaving their front with less spear points, thus opening the possibility of a breach there (perhaps also executed by the V-wedge formation?).

If I were to push through a phalanx front (for whatever reason), the V-wedge formation would be my initial idea, probably.

[Illian the Mediocre]

I read somewhere it weighed about 12 pounds so it wasn't that heavy

It's not so much the weight of the pikes that would make them difficult to use, but more the length. However they would often dig one end of the pike into the ground to help them steady it. You're right of course it would be very tiring in a battle. Thus making attempts to break through more successful.