Game Name, Titles, Etc.

[Northnovas]

Coming Soon to a PC Counsel infront of you! The Blockbuster of the Summer 2008! The most anticipated sequel in Org PBM history!

Last of the Romans (The Empire Strikes Back)

[Privateerkev]

I can already hear the Imperial March going as a sea of purple spreads across the screen.

[gibsonsg91921]

Oh, dear.

[PrinceofTroy]

I vote for Last of the Romans, LotR as the title

[TinCow]

I hereby proclaim that the game shall be called Last of the Romans, or LotR for short. It connects the third game well with WOTS and HRE, which were both 'Roman' games. It's also a nice continuation off of the 'King of the Romans' title. Finally, it's not as blatantly fanboy as The Empire Strikes Back.

Now, let's finalize these titles.

[Privateerkev]

Finally, it's not as blatantly fanboy as The Empire Strikes Back.

Sure it is. It just caters to a different set of fanboys.

[flyd]

Well, no one has spoken out much against OK's suggestion, and there has been support. He has left out the Faction Heir though, and I assume he means Senate for governing body.

With a good FH suggestion, these will be pretty final, I'd say. Complain now if you hate them.

[AussieGiant]

So lets go with OK's suggestion.

[TinCow]

OK's system is good, but I don't like using Senator for Knight, since Senator is the obvious substitute for the generic "nobleman" term used in the rules. We need that to be distinct from the Knight rank, otherwise the rules will get confusing. So, we need ERE titles for the Faction Heir and the Knight. I would prefer if the ranks for Faction Leader and Faction Heir were the same as in the game to prevent confusion. Does anyone know off the top of their head what those are?

[Ituralde]

Faction Heir - Caesar

And of course Magistros for the Ex-Chancellor!

I just started a game and the Faction Leader ist named Emperor and the Faction Heir Prince.

[TinCow]

Er, Emperor and Prince won't work, though I suppose we shouldn't fault anyone who uses them IC. Caesar works, so we just need a substitute for Knight. Looking at the Wikipedia info on Byzantine titles, Topoteretes seems like a good starting point, so it seems better to shuffle that title down and insert a higher ranking one at another point. If it's placed at Marquess level, that reshuffles Viscount and Count to Hypatos and Antypatos respectively, which is nice considering the close relationship of the western terms. So, how about Patrikios for Marquess? According to Wikipedia:

Patrikios (Πατρίκιος) - "patrician": Established as the highest title of nobility by Constantine the Great, it remained one of the highest dignities until its disappearance in the Comnenian period, awarded to high-ranking officials and foreign rulers. The patrikioi had the right to partake in the sessions of the Senate. The spouses of patricians bore the title patrikia (not to be confused with zostē patrikia, see below)

So, that would leave us with:

Draft Rule Title/Term - LotR Title

Nobleman (Generic term for anyone in the game) - Senator
Knight - Topoteretes
Baronet - Comes
Baron - Domestikos
Viscount - Hypatos
Count - Antypatos
Marquess - Patrikios
Duke - Dux
Grand Duke - Exarch
Faction Heir - Caesar
Faction Leader - Basileus
Chancellor - Megas Logothetes
Ex-Chancellor - Magistros
Governing Body - Senate

Megas Dux may be more historically appropriate for most Grand Dukes we see, but we're already butchering historical accuracy with this system, so it's not a major loss. Plus, IMO Exarch sounds pretty damn cool. That's a title that would be fun to have. I thought about 'official' abbreviations, but no one will agree on them. Let's just give the titles their full names. We'll probably migrate towards a shorter 'slang' naturally and without any need for official prompting.

Opinions? Topoteretes is a bit of a mouthful, especially for a rank that will probably be referred to a lot. It doesn't abbreviate easily unless you do something silly like "Topo". Is there something shorter we could replace it with? Strator maybe?

[Ituralde]

I'm already looking forward to us breaking some kind of unofficial world record: "Most false spellings for a single word" or something like that. It all comes with the package.

I'm fine with the suggested titles.

[flyd]

I'm ok with TC's draft, except the Exarch thing. I'd still like to see both Megas Dux and Exarch available for the top rank. No need to make a legal distinction, just let the person who achieves that rank style himself with either of the two titles. Just make the entry Exarch / Megas Dux.

Topoteretes is a bit cumbersome, I wouldn't mind replacing it. Strator is nice, pretty low/insulting rank, but sounds sort of cool.

Finally, as an aside, for those who were complaining about Basileus/Basileos, I just noticed that according to wiki at least, Basileus is spelled Βασιλεύς, where the second to last letter is an upsilon, and not an omega nor omicron. Guess not all Greek words end in -os.

[Cecil XIX]

The patrikioi had the right to partake in the sessions of the Senate.

Sounds like it should be used for a rank that can't be banned from the Senate, IMHO. I've no real opinion on anything else, I'm sure it'll be fine.

[AussieGiant]

So, that would leave us with:

Draft Rule Title/Term - LotR Title

Nobleman (Generic term for anyone in the game) - Senator
Knight - Strator
Baronet - Comes
Baron - Domestikos
Viscount - Hypatos
Count - Antypatos
Marquess - Patrikios
Duke - Dux
Grand Duke - Exarch / Megas Dux
Faction Heir - Caesar
Faction Leader - Basileus
Chancellor - Megas Logothetes
Ex-Chancellor - Magistros
Governing Body - Senate

FIRE!!!

[TinCow]

Sounds like it should be used for a rank that can't be banned from the Senate, IMHO. I've no real opinion on anything else, I'm sure it'll be fine.

However, the only ranks that have this power are Duke and Grand Duke. The titles for those ranks (Dux and Megas Dux/Exarch) already fit very well. FLYdude's point about Megas Dux/Exarch makes sense. While it could be potentially confusing, I doubt we will ever see enough Grand Dukes to make it a problem. Unless I hear protests otherwise (or better suggestions) I'm going to substitute Strator for Topoteretes. So, this is the 'almost final' version. I will adapt the rules to these terms later today.

Draft Rule Title/Term - LotR Title

Nobleman (Generic term for anyone in the game) - Senator
Knight - Strator
Baronet - Comes
Baron - Domestikos
Viscount - Hypatos
Count - Antypatos
Marquess - Patrikios
Duke - Dux
Grand Duke - Exarch / Megas Dux
Faction Heir - Caesar
Faction Leader - Basileus
Chancellor - Megas Logothetes
Ex-Chancellor - Magistros
Governing Body - Senate

[Ituralde]

Me neither

[TinCow]

I don't know what you're talking about...