The Real C. Julius Caesar

[Blazing141]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/..._caesar_bust_5


I'm sure many of you have seen the above post....just curious as to everyone's thoughts....it clearly doesnt resemble any other known sculpture of Caesar....and the article says nothing about how they know it is Julius Caesar, so I wonder if they are right....


What does everyone else think? Any one close to the area at issue? Have any thoughts? Discuss...

Bests,
T-

[russia almighty]

He looks old


Really old

[pezhetairoi]

His face looks rounder in this bust than all the other versions of JC I've seen. I'm honestly a bit doubtful as to how they and why they claim this is JC. No mention made of how they positively identified the body that the divers found. Hmm.

It'll be interesting to follow this up, though.

[Blazing141]

I agree Pez, it seems pretty suspect. The only link to Caesar is that he founded the town where this was discovered. It seems like the French Government may be trying to stimulate a tourist industry in the area?

I can't imagine why they would claim this is Caesar and not present some kind of corroborating evidence....

[Gaivs]

Hmmm, same large skull, wrinkled brow and creased eyes. Could be him, a more realistic one if it is, as later busts tended to stray from reality. Like taping a tape over and over.

Edit, i love journos who dont know what they are talking about.

"Albanel called the find "exceptional" and said that the Caesar bust is "the oldest representation known today" of the emperor"

[pezhetairoi]

It's highly suspect indeed. This bust to me, quite frankly, bears very little resemblance to the JC we've seen in all the versions known. Is the French government trying to say all the busts of JC, probably the guy with the most media/sculpture coverage in his day and age, are wrong on the basis of this one bust? Even if you get older, your face does not change in shape. And I find it unlikely that JC would look so mild, even in 'old age'. He died at the height of his power and ambition, after all.

Though of course there may be others who see a resemblance, I don't know. I'm a names person, not a face person.

EDIT: Yeah. Gaivs sees a resemblance. Hooray. Your opinions on face shape, Gaivs?

[abou]

It isn't Caesar. It definitely isn't Caesar.

The portrait that has been accepted as being the closest to the man himself is the Tusculum portrait for a number of reasons. The foremost being that it matches the Mettius denarius that was pressed during Caesar's dictatorship.

[Blazing141]

Yep, its also screwed up that the media calls him an emperor, even Augustus was careful not to call himself that.

People are ill-informed.

As to the face shape...its a total stretch...it looks very different to me.

On the other point, I don't think a bust is intended to capture the ambition and power of a person, just their likeness...and in fact they may try to make the person look more placid and welcoming.

I don't buy that this is JC until I learn more.

[Gaivs]

It's highly suspect indeed. This bust to me, quite frankly, bears very little resemblance to the JC we've seen in all the versions known. Is the French government trying to say all the busts of JC, probably the guy with the most media/sculpture coverage in his day and age, are wrong on the basis of this one bust? Even if you get older, your face does not change in shape. And I find it unlikely that JC would look so mild, even in 'old age'. He died at the height of his power and ambition, after all.

Though of course there may be others who see a resemblance, I don't know. I'm a names person, not a face person.

EDIT: Yeah. Gaivs sees a resemblance. Hooray. Your opinions on face shape, Gaivs?

Well thats the thing, the Caesar we all know had a higher forhead, stong cheeks and a somewhat straighter elongated face. Although there are resemblances, i dont think that is Caesar. He is too overweight for one thing. One possible scenario however, it could belong to his cousin Lucius Caesar, OR perhaps even the only old aged Augustus bust? As Octavian looked like Caesar, then its plausible at a stretch that this resemblence to Ceasar in the bust could be because of a relation.

[M V Agrippa]

Well after looking at the bust and all the other bust of Caesar The Dictator I don't think it is him, but that it is a Julian. For my money I bet it's his cousin Lucius. Still it's cool to see them find such an old bust.

[Maion Maroneios]

Well, he certainly doesn't look like the Ceasar I know...

[Poulp']

Fire fighting in Southern France is facing a wall

- Real Estate pressure. Forested natural are protected from being transformed into residential areas... but, once it has been scorched to the ground, you can lobby your way and get things done. See what I mean.

- Droughts that drag on for a few years. It barely rained last fall too; that means the vegetation is dry all year long.



I'll keep translating tomorrow/later today.
I've printed the documents and began working on them, but it's 7 in the morning and I can feel I've been to a poker night when I see the lines of text waving before my eyes.
I can't do a proper job right now.

...

well,
somehow, that morning, when they began to tear down the walls of the building that is just on the other side of the street, I knew what I could do (working on the text) and what I couldn't do any longer.


french gov's internet is failing me, I decided to skip to the third article.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Yeah I know; seems to've been the same with Greece; Portugal; Spain; and ... California.

[Poulp']

http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites/dec...s/914/0/245100

Pictures of the archeological wonders found in Arles

The bust of Julius Caesar was stagnating in the Rhone for more that 2050 years when it was found by the diving archeologist Luc Long in Arles. It is estimated than the bust dates back from 46BC. This statue of Arles' founding father "constitutes the oldest representation of Caesar known to this day" Christine Albanel declared on Thusday, May 14th when she put an end to several months of secrecy that shrouded the major discovery of the DRASSM.

Why was the secret kept ? According to Michel L'Hour the director of the department, "we first had to secure the site of exploration and prevent looting. Then we consulted the most eminent specialists in ancient statuary to ascertain whether it was a genuine portrait of Julius Ceasar or not. They unanimously confirmed the portrait's authenticity". More acurate details were revealed about the datation method, in particular, the study of the portrait's stylistic. The curator explains, "This real-size bust is a typical instance of the serie of realistic portraits of the republican era. The facial features show his age as well as early sign of calvitia. There is every sign that the portrait was realized when the emperor was still alive".

A miraculous harvest

According to Michel L'Hour, the city of Arles probably had many statues of the roman emperor, because of the close ties between the city and her founding father. When Julius Caesar was assassinated the 15th of March, in 44BC, the archeologist supposes that "it convinced Arles' inhabitants that the statues had become too cumbersome and that they'd rather get rid of them. It could explain why they ended in the river".
The exploration took place between September and October 2007. More than a hundred pieces were pulled from the depth of time abroad the Nocibé II, a real miraculous harvest. And it seems the river still holds more antiquities, as another underwater exploration is scheduled this summer, on the very same site.

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by far, the most detailed article I've read about the bust.
It provides new pieces of information that were omitted in the other articles.
The expert's conclusion no longer comes out of the blue. The journalist hinted at the archeologists' methodology, still I'd like to know how they reached that unanimous opinion.

A hundred pieces... fragmented statues, columns, altars... Their disposition on the riverbed is not disclosed ATM...

[Skullheadhq]

It isn't Caesar. His face was more skinny.
Just a stupid french idea to get more tourists!