The Real C. Julius Caesar

**pezhetairoi** · 05-15-2008, 00:57

His face looks rounder in this bust than all the other versions of JC I've seen. I'm honestly a bit doubtful as to how they and why they claim this is JC. No mention made of how they positively identified the body that the divers found. Hmm.

It'll be interesting to follow this up, though.

**Blazing141** · 05-15-2008, 01:13

I agree Pez, it seems pretty suspect. The only link to Caesar is that he founded the town where this was discovered. It seems like the French Government may be trying to stimulate a tourist industry in the area?

I can't imagine why they would claim this is Caesar and not present some kind of corroborating evidence....

**Gaivs** · 05-15-2008, 01:16

Hmmm, same large skull, wrinkled brow and creased eyes. Could be him, a more realistic one if it is, as later busts tended to stray from reality. Like taping a tape over and over.

Edit, i love journos who dont know what they are talking about.

"Albanel called the find "exceptional" and said that the Caesar bust is "the oldest representation known today" of the emperor"

**pezhetairoi** · 05-15-2008, 01:19

It's highly suspect indeed. This bust to me, quite frankly, bears very little resemblance to the JC we've seen in all the versions known. Is the French government trying to say all the busts of JC, probably the guy with the most media/sculpture coverage in his day and age, are wrong on the basis of this one bust? Even if you get older, your face does not change in shape. And I find it unlikely that JC would look so mild, even in 'old age'. He died at the height of his power and ambition, after all.

Though of course there may be others who see a resemblance, I don't know. I'm a names person, not a face person.

EDIT: Yeah. Gaivs sees a resemblance. Hooray. Your opinions on face shape, Gaivs?

**abou** · 05-15-2008, 01:22

It isn't Caesar. It definitely isn't Caesar.

The portrait that has been accepted as being the closest to the man himself is the Tusculum portrait for a number of reasons. The foremost being that it matches the Mettius denarius that was pressed during Caesar's dictatorship.

**Blazing141** · 05-15-2008, 01:25

Yep, its also screwed up that the media calls him an emperor, even Augustus was careful not to call himself that.

People are ill-informed.

As to the face shape...its a total stretch...it looks very different to me.

On the other point, I don't think a bust is intended to capture the ambition and power of a person, just their likeness...and in fact they may try to make the person look more placid and welcoming.

I don't buy that this is JC until I learn more.

**Gaivs** · 05-15-2008, 01:55

Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

It's highly suspect indeed. This bust to me, quite frankly, bears very little resemblance to the JC we've seen in all the versions known. Is the French government trying to say all the busts of JC, probably the guy with the most media/sculpture coverage in his day and age, are wrong on the basis of this one bust? Even if you get older, your face does not change in shape. And I find it unlikely that JC would look so mild, even in 'old age'. He died at the height of his power and ambition, after all.

Though of course there may be others who see a resemblance, I don't know. I'm a names person, not a face person.

EDIT: Yeah. Gaivs sees a resemblance. Hooray. Your opinions on face shape, Gaivs?

Well thats the thing, the Caesar we all know had a higher forhead, stong cheeks and a somewhat straighter elongated face. Although there are resemblances, i dont think that is Caesar. He is too overweight for one thing. One possible scenario however, it could belong to his cousin Lucius Caesar, OR perhaps even the only old aged Augustus bust? As Octavian looked like Caesar, then its plausible at a stretch that this resemblence to Ceasar in the bust could be because of a relation.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 05-15-2008, 02:19

It doesn't look like any other depiction, anyway, if it's so realistic it should be bald. As far as calling himself "Emperor" of course he did, Imperator is all over his inscriptions, his letters, his decrees.

Why shouldn't it be?

What he didn't call himself was rex.

**Gaivs** · 05-15-2008, 03:12

Um, no. Caesar never did that. If you see any inscription that says Imp. Caesar. It would belong to Octavian, as that was what he was known as before the title Augustus.

**Ibrahim** · 05-15-2008, 04:06

I know who it looks like...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Caesar
I'm not sure if that's him though. I mean same round face, but the rest, I dunno. (i.e. it looks like him-but I don't think that's him)

**Tellos Athenaios** · 05-15-2008, 06:25

Originally Posted by Gaivs

Um, no. Caesar never did that. If you see any inscription that says Imp. Caesar. It would belong to Octavian, as that was what he was known as before the title Augustus.

Huh? Imperator simply meant 'Commander'; so I don't doubt Caesar would've called himself that way when he addressed his men or gave out whatever orders he did.

Augustus used it to give his assumed/enforced powers a more legitimate feeling to it; as an Imperator usually was appointed by the Senate.

"At the age of 19...
... and the Senate gave me Imperium"; is IIRC one of the first lines from his/the Res Gestae.

EDIT: Also, Octavian is a bit of an awkward name to use.