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Thread: For PanzerJaeger, comparing the armies of WW2

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  1. #27
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: For PanzerJaeger, comparing the armies of WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by rotorgun
    OK.....if you must lock me down then I will define best as most capable of performing combined arms warfare in WW2.
    I will admit to you proud Finns, that after looking at all of the many excellent sources presented in your argument, I shall agree that Finland may indeed have had the best army in terms of consistent performance. Man for man the Finnish Army of WW2 was the toughest set of hombres in the land.

    Have you ever played Advanced Squad Leader? (ASL) The Finnish squads are represented in the game as Ubertruppen who don't even need leaders to rally, have very good morale, and a good mixture of support weapons (many of the German) to equip them. They get bonuses for winter warfare, and most can use skis. Many of the scenarios are from the war with the Russians, and in most they are victorious if played by a competent player. They are a joy to play, and a challenge to play against. They just keep coming back at you relentlessly. If ASL has depicted them right, I would dread to face soldiers such as these.

    Of course this is a matter of opinion, and I still feel that for overall innovation and technique, the German Army was the best. I can at least admit that I might be wrong however, and am glad to concede to one who argues so thoughtfully.
    Its a complex issue what makes men hard to win. I doubt that it is inherit to any set of peoples. When it comes to Finnish army of WWII, i would point two main reasons. First, the doctrine. When the overall command encourages soldiers to be creative from the single trooper level and show in their strategic decisions that they care about the soldiers they are commanding by not getting them killed in vain, because of heroism or stubborn principles which have no room in mobile warfare. There is enough heroism in dying for your country, there is no need to make heroes more then its absolutely necessary.
    To point into this, my instructor when i was at petty officer school, put it like this:

    "Motti, starts from a single individual soldier, if the enemy who you are facing cant predict your next move, you have the advantage, then its up to you how you use it. Out manouvering many men starts from out manouvering one man."

    The second and more important reason in my mind was the early success in defensive victories. When a individual or group, no matter if its a squad, platoon, Battalion or a division, is successful, they start to think they are good in what they do and when a group thinks its good (in case its not hybris, but they have a reason to think so), suddenly it starts outperforming itself and indeed becomes better. When you combine, rugged training, with open atmosphere of inspirational thinking, with high self esteem and will to fight, such group is hard to beat, not impossible, but hard.
    Now if Soviets could have been able to overrun Finnish like they planned in the start of Winter War, the morale would have probably collapsed and so would have Finland. There are many examples in history, when men from a certain countries have outperformed themselves, while in another war and time, have shown little spirit to fight. During WWII Finnish had the will and the determination to fight, but it doesnt change the fact that it could have been just as well otherwise.

    But what i know for fact is that the "teräsmyrsky", steel storm like Finns call the fourth strategic offensive left a mark to every man who was there. As a little story i can mention my own grandfather, who fought both in Winter War and Continuation War. Before the war he liked to hunt, but when he came back from Continuation War he dismissed his hunting rifle and since then there wasnt any firearms in his farm. I guess he had shot enough for one life time. Also when i was a child i can still remember when some nights, in middle of the night suddenly he yelled in his dreams and that sounded like a yell of a wounded animal, not like a man yelling. I guess from that experience i think nothing creates pacifist like war, its just a shame that in this world we are, one can only hope for a peace, but have to prepare for war.

    And about ASL, nope i havent played it. As Finland has still a citizen army,my experiences of Finnish infantry come from my military service in Karelian Jaeger Brigade as Sergeant of mechanized Jaeger infantry. Novadays im staff Sergeant in reserve, one more re-rehearsal and promotion to Warrant officer in reserve might take place with some luck.
    Last edited by Kagemusha; 05-23-2008 at 15:09.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

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