Feedback wanted!

[shizzzm]

As I was playing the game, I could help but notice how the Choson General had the same model as the Chinese General.
Because all the other factions have original Generals, maybe the Koreans deserve a unique model too?
Anyways, here are some images I that depict the role of a Korean general well, just in case anyone takes my suggestion to consideration.




Btw, BL rocks.

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

Great update on the mod!!! a lil more play testing and the stats will be just right me thinks :D

One question though, are the single unit regiments only available in small unit sizes? cause I can only get a single unit with small unit sizes ..... >.>

[Alexander IV Aegus]

Any chance of this being mod foldered? The screenies look great but i dont want it messing with vanilla files.

[Rinsui]

@MOFO
Yes, normal unit size only. Theoretically, there is a workaround for large unit sizes if you use it as a general's bodyguard, but this workaround lead to results worse than what we have now. Also, it would mean the Hero units could not be used in custom battles - and I guess that's not really what you guys want.

@Alexander
Nope. It will definitely crush all your beloved vanilla files.

[kitagata]

Hey Rinsui, noticed a couple of small things that are easy to change, and really help.

In Japanese settlements, there is a large Roman barracks. I don't know how to take it out, BUT...
in "Data\models_building\TEXTURES" there is "ROOFTILES_LARGE_GOLDISH.TGA" file.

Make a copy of "GREEK_ROOF_TILES.TGA" and rename it to "ROOFTILES_LARGE_GOLDISH.TGA".
Now the Roman barracks will use the Japanese roof tiles.

ALSO, you can get rid of the Roman statues in Japanese and Monk settlements.
Open descr_settlement_plan.txt and go down until you see things like this:

group colosseum_group
{
greek_elite_cavalry_stables, 0, 0, 0, 0
boxed_tree_A, -114, -52, 0, 0
boxed_tree_A, 116, -62, 0, 0
boxed_tree_A, -84, 88, 0, 0
boxed_tree_A, -114, 58, 0, 0
boxed_tree_B, -84, -84, 0, 0
boxed_tree_B, 69, -88, 0, 0
boxed_tree_B, 116, 56, 0, 0
boxed_tree_B, -114, 86, 0, 0
boxed_tree_C, -90, 76, 0, 0
boxed_tree_C, -120, -84, 0, 0
boxed_tree_C, 80, -84, 0, 0
boxed_tree_C, 120, 36, 0, 0
boxed_tree_E, -104, 72, 0, 0
boxed_tree_E, 76, 82, 0, 0
boxed_tree_E, 96, -78, 0, 0
boxed_tree_E, -74, -88, 0, 0
boxed_tree_F, -104, -74, 0, 0
boxed_tree_F, 106, 76, 0, 0
greek_colonnaded_portico, 115, -82, 0, 0
roman_statue, -120, -40, -67.5, 0
roman_statue, -120, 40, -112.5, 0
roman_statue, -60, 90, -164.25, 0
roman_statue, 60, 90, 164.25, 0
roman_statue, 120, 80, 126, 0
roman_statue, 120, -40, 85.5, 0
roman_statue, -60, -90, -11.25, 0
}
Now put a semi colon before "roman_statue" or replace it with something else (boxed_tree_F, etc...)
Now the Akagi and Zensen settlements look much better.

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

Any chance of this being mod foldered? The screenies look great but i dont want it messing with vanilla files.

just make a copy of the rome total war folder, rename the original blue lotus, install, then play.

Then if you wanna go back to vanilla just launch the game from the folder of the copy.

[kitagata]

Hey, I downloaded and tried the Three Kingdoms mod, and there are a lot of elements that could be borrowed. Their Chinese buildings would be great for improving the BL Chinese culture factions' cities. I don't have 3d editing software, otherwise I would add it.
Just the building texture skins alone are great, and I have used them to add variety to the buildings.
There are good music files as well.

Also, it seems the mod is no longer being officially worked on, so it's alright to borrow from it. Plus I noticed they took the Yomi banner image and Chinese shield texture and used it themselves.

[Rinsui]

...which means we are well able to do it the other way round, I guess. Could you give me a link to their download page?

[kitagata]

Here you go:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=66550

[Rinsui]

Thanks Kitagata, and thanks for the advice on the texture. It's right those tiny things that cost so much time to find out. About the descr_settlement_plan.txt however: In my file the roman_statue entries are already ;ed out, but those pesky statues appear in-battle nonetheless. I wonder why...?

[kitagata]

Did you check that the statues had ";" in all of both the Roman AND Greek tile layouts?

[kitagata]

I've been play testing the Japanese factions, and I think you did a really good job. Those Kamikaze are worth the high point cost!
The Crossbow units are incredibly slow though. Could someone maybe change their animation set so that the run faster?

Also, your mercenary units are really good, but the Hilltribe mercs are a little... basic.
I thought the Standard Bearer might be a good unique unit.

Here is an example, the CAS needs to be fixed so it doesn't have the 'ghost' lines from the standard.

http://files.filefront.com/NEW+BLTW+.../fileinfo.html

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3045/...142fde27_o.jpg

Just an idea.

Keep up the good work. Look forward to the next update!

[Rinsui]

Ah yes, Kita. I did make sure the ";" are there to no avail. I'll post an update tomorrow with the file in, so please be so kind to check what I did wrong (does it 100% work for you, btw?). As I said before only the Akagi and Zensen stats are finished for now, but I guess it's time to shed some light on the strange calculations (sometimes they look like abyssmal incantations to me) I used to arrive at what we have. Be prepared. Here it is.


*****************************************************************************************
*****************************************************************************************
General rules:
1. All further modifications are added or substracted form these basic stats:
- Attack skill 2
- Attack speed 25
- Kill chance 1
- Defense Skill 2
- Health 1
- Morale 0
- Heat 2

2. For "normal" units, apply the following soldier numbers and formation spacings based on you unit type:
- 60 Infantry Peasants and Militia 1, 1, 2, 2, 4
- 48 Archers 1, 2, 2, 4, 3 (this includes peasant and militia archery)
- 48 Swordsmen 1.3, 2, 2.6, 4, 4
- 48 Spearmen 1, 1, 2, 2, 3
- 33 Cavalry 1.5, 4, 3, 8, 3 (this includes missile cavalry)
- Special arbitrary rules apply to Chariots, Elephants, Heroes and Dragons
This will ensure all units have roughly the same width spacing to make some nasty exploits more difficult.
Note that exceptions exist for "special" units, which are sometimes smaller (e.g.: Bodyguard units,
Level 5 units, Heroes) or even larger in number (e.g.: the Karazai Nomads) than usual or have
special spacings for their special formations.

3. Next take a good look at the units model, and decide on the appropriateness of the following number:
- type
- category
- class
- voice_type
- officer
- Speed (controlled by the skeleton in descr_model_battle.txt used for a given model!)
- Weight
- their ability to hide (generally infantry units without glinting armour have hide_increased_forest, infantry units
with glinting armour and cavalry units without have hide_forest. Cavalry units with glinting armour normally
cannot hide.)

4. Next is the armour value. Each piece of equipment is asociated with a specific bonus.
Take a good look at the unit model and use common sense in unclear cases.
- Light Helmet (e.g. Turbans, Leather Caps etc.): +1
- Heavy Helmet (e.g. Full Cover Steel Helmets, Kabuto etc.): +2
- Special Neck Guard: +1
- Light Cloth (e.g.: full body single-layer or half-body padded cloth): +1
- Padded Cloth: +2
- Leather Breastplate: +2
- Metal Breastplate: +3
- Simple Shins (Arm-, Shoulder and Leg Guards): +1
- Heavy Shins: +2
- Leather Koshi (The piece of armour used to guard your hip and upper legs): +1
- Metal koshi: +2
- High Quality Equipment: +1
- Special Armour set used by the Iron Wall Unit: 16
- Heavy Horse Armour: +3
- Arbitrary special rules apply to Elephants, Dragons and Heroes

5. Next are the shield values. Use common sense again.
- Up to 25cm diameter shield or lefthand weapon: +1
- 25-40cm diameter shield: +2
- 40-60cm diameter shield: +3
- 60-85cm diameter shield: +4
- above 85cm diameter shield: +5

6. Next are heat stat modifications due to heavy armour.
- For infantry units and cavalry units with heavily armoured horses (e.g. the Khanate Heavy Cavalry)
　simply half of the sum of armour and shield values to the base value. Round up.
- For cavalry units with unarmoured horses add one fourth of armour and shield values to the base value.
Round up.
- For camel units reduce the final value by 2
- Arbitrary special rules apply to Elephants, Dragons and Heroes

7. Next is the really fun but complicated part: Level-based bonus points. Each normal unit is available for campaign
map recruitment at a specific city size level. As a general rule it will get more Level-boni the later it is available.
The exact amount of level points available to a unit is calculated by multiplicating the unit's level (0-6) with
the culture specific amount of level bonus points available to a culture. Example: The Zensen units get 12
bonus points a level. This means a unit available for recruitment at "large city" level will get... exactly. 12*5=60
level bonus points (of course there are countless exceptions to this simple rule).
With these level points you are allowed to buy unit stat increases like higher morale or attack skill increases
etc. Each increase has its specific price, and some are even dynamic: whereas the first attack or defense value
increases at a given level cost only 2 points, each subsequent increase at a given level will cost one cumulative
point more.
Example: A LV 2 unit (recruitable at "large town" level) gets 12 points per level, totalling 24. With these 24
points I decide to first buy 3 attack vale increases. Since it is a LV 2 unit, this means I will have to pay at least
7 level bonus points for this. Why 7? Because I have to pay 2 points for the increase at LV 1, then 2 points
for the increase at LV 2, and then I have to pay 2+1 points for another increase at either LV 1 or LV 2. If I
wanted to increase attack skill by 5 points and defense skill by 2 points, I'd have to pay 2+2+3+3+4 points
for attack, and another 2+2 points for defense increases, totalling 18 points. May sound complicated, but will
ensure right the degree of "restricted variation" good balancing needs.
The complete price listing for stat increases or abilities is as follows.
The stats not listed (e.g. charge boni) are not (normally) changeable.
Available melee status increase price listing:
- Attack skill: 2 (special: level-bound cumulative increase as stated above)
- Defense skill: 2 (special: level-bound cumulative increase as stated above)
- Morale: 1
Available skill price listing:
- Command: 6
- Mental stat Impetuous: 1
- Mental stat normal: 2
- Mental stat Disciplined: 4
- frighten_foot: 5
- frighten_mounted: 3
- Wedge Formation: 3
- Circle-and-shoot Formation: 3
- Testudo (Turtle) Formation: 3
- warcry: 4
- druid: 3
- screeching_women: 3
- hardy: 3
- very_hardy: 6
- Fiery Ammo: 3
Note on archery status changes:
- Units with normal bow/crossbow attacks should get archery level boni beginning at Level 2 as befitting
for their faction, but have their melee boni decreased by two levels on the average.
- Units with throwing spears get archery level boni as befitting for their faction, but are limited to 4 volleys
and have their melee boni decreased by one level on the average
- Range and Range attack skill may be increased at will as long as the total value of the formula
(Range in Meters/100)*Range attack skill*4
stays below the alotted archery level bonus total
- The Range attack skill value in the formula has to be increased by 3 if the attack is armour piercing
- The whole formula has to be divided by 1.4 if the complicated crossbow animation is used (as it is much slower)
- The whole formula has to be divided by 1.4 for normal accuracy, by 1.4 for low accuracy and by 1.4 for horrible
accuracy. Accuracy levels are tied to different projectiles whose stats can be found in the file
descr_projectiles_new.txt.

8. Innate and special skills
Some exceptionally powerful skills should be limited to very special units in their use. These include:
- Mental stat berserker
- Double Health
- The phalanx (Iron Wall) formation
- The ability to sap (which is given freely to LV 0 peasant infantry)
- The ability to hide in long grass
- The ability to hide everywhere
- The bad habit to run amok
- Increases or decreases to the attack speed
In the rare cases those skills are used make sure to reasonably compensate for their power (e.g. by halving
unit size etc.)

9. Next is special weapon attributes, and final attack skill and defense skill modifications
- Heavy two-handed weapons have their attack skill value multiplied by 4/3 (round up), and their defense skill
value multiplied by 3/4 (round down)
- Axes, Maces and Poleaxes get an armour piercing attribute, but have their defense skill value multiplied
by 3/4 (round down yet again)
- infantry units with spears get the
- Cavalry units equipped with lances now immediately get a charge bonus equal to their current attack skill value
but multiply their defense skill rating by 2/3 if they do not also have a second weapon (round down yet again).
- All units then multiply their attack and defense skill ratings by (1-(Armour+Shield value)*2.5%) (round down).

10. Charge boni
All units then get charge boni based on their current attack skill values. The size of this bonus is:
- 1/2 the size of the attack skill value (round up) for normal infantry units
- 2/3 the size of the attack skill value (round up) for infantry units with heavy 2-handed weapons and
cavalry units without lances
- Special rules apply to cavalry units with lances (see 9. above). Be aware that for them the ordering of
calculations if different. This is important.

11. Terrain boni
Each terrain effects different types of units in a differeny way. To reflect this, terrain boni (technically most
are mali btw., as they give negative modifiers) are calculated in the following way.
First calculate the sum of attack skill, armour value, defense skill and shield value. Multiply this sum
by the terrain and unit type specific multiplier as given below and round up. What you get is the terrain bonus
that unit has for this type of terrain.
Unit type specific multipliers are:
Scrub: Elephants: 0, Chariots: 1/3, All others : 1/6
Sand: Chariots: 1/6, All others: 0
Wood: Cavalry: 1/6, Chariots: 1/3
Snow: Camels and Elephants: 1/6, 1/2 for nude units, 1/4 for light cloth units
1/8 for Multi-layer Cloth units, 0 for all other units
Example: An Infantry unit has attack skill 5, armour 3, defense skill 4 and no shield. It's terrain bonus
in scrub would be (5+3+4)*1/6 = 2.

12. Worth
Each parameter has a certain worth value. The total worth of a single soldier is calculated by adding up
all the worth parameters of the stats and abilities he has. The worth of the whole unit is calculated by
multiplying this value with the number of men in one unit. The worth of each stat and ability is:
Attack skill: 2
Charge Bonus: 1
Armour Piercing Melee Weapon: 6
Armour: 4
Defense skill: 2
Shield value: 3
Morale: 1
Movement speed slow: -6
Movement speed semi-fast: 6
Movement speed fast: 12
Ranged attack (Range in Meters/100)*Range attack skill: 4
- armour piercing increases the Ranged attack skill value by 3
- long reload time for crossbows divides the whole formula by 1.4
- the whole formula is divided by 1.4 for normal accuracy, by 1.4 for low accuracy
and by 1.4 for horrible accuracy
- the whole formula is halved for spearthrowers due to the low ammo
Impetuous: 1
Normal: 2
Disciplined: 4
Berserker: doubles worth
Heat: -1
hide_forest: 3
hide_improved_forest: 6
hide_long_grass: 9
hide_anywhere: 12
can_sap: 6
frighten_foot: 5
frighten_mounted: 3
can_run_amok: -12
cantabrian_circle: 3
command: 6
warcry: 4
druid: 3
screeching_women: 3
hardy: 3
very_hardy: 6
Fiery Ammo: 3
Testuo formation: 3
Wedge formation: 3
Phalanx formation: unit worth multiplied by 1.5
Attack Delay 0: worth multiplied by 1.5
Health: worth multiplied by the appropriate value
Number of soldiers: worth multiplied by the appropriate value
Sum of all terrain boni: 1/4

13. Cost
- Recruitment cost: Simply divide the worth by 100, round up, and square that value.
- Support cost: Recruitment cost*1/3
- Build time: 1 turn for LV 0,1, and 2 units, 2 turns for LV 3 and 4 units, 3 turns for LV 5 units

14. Unit type-specific special rules:
- Militia Units have their support cost halved (to 1/6 of their recruitment price), but get only 2/3 of the Level 1
boni to melee or archery stats, although they are (technically) Level 3 units.
- LV 0 units cost only half their normal price to recruit, but their support cost is a fixed 300/60 per infantry
man and a fixed 450/60 per cavalry man.



Faction Specials:

;Akagi units:
;+Infantry in step 1 and 3 get at 12 level-point extra bonus
;+Level boni are 12 for all unit types and levels, archery and melee
;Akagi campmap:
;+relatively rich, large and cultured, diplomacy specialists
;+relatively secure starting position
;-weak militay force in the beginning
;-All Samurai units are one step slower to recruit
;Zensen units:
;+Infantry in step 1 and 3 get at 12 level-point extra bonus
;+Level boni are 12 for all unit types and levels, archery and melee
;Zensen campmap:
;-relatively poor in the beginning
;+secure starting position
;+large standing army in the beginning
;-All Samurai units are one step slower to recruit

;Karazai:
;units:
;+Terrain mali lowered by 1/3 (and even boni available, round up)
;+Even riders with glinting armour can hide
;+All horses one step faster
;+Level boni are 14 for both archery and melee throughout for cavalry units
;-Level boni are 12 for archery and 10 for melee for all infantry units and levels
;campmap
;+Vassal-type units are one step faster to recruit
;-no heavy walls
;-no militia units
;-limited agricultural options
;-short tech tree
;+units cost only 2/3 their normal price to recruit and maintain
;-no siege equipment
*****************************************************************************************
*****************************************************************************************
Scared?

Of course there are some things I simply have to do *by intuition*. Which is subjective. I try to have "objective intuitions" though, if you get what I mean, hahahaha! I do not have the time to incorporate the new buildings (in theory I know how to do it; actually all the palace complexes for Jap/Chin factions bear the arranged by Rinsui tag). I both agree the Hilltribe guys are generic and those women are beautiful to watch, but these women are such a special sight I'd like to reserve them for the standard task (which is an unintended pun). Plus I hate making new unit cards. But as time goes by I might change my mind.
For now, I fear it's back to the stat implementation board. Do you agree with the faction specifics for Akagi, Zensen and the Karazai, btw?

[kitagata]

Very complicated system, but the results seem good so far. The Kharazai will really need that recruit/upkeep discount if they can't build stone walls and have a simpler building tree, and are located in the middle of the map. They will be challenging.

Here is a link to a mod team that is essentially doing Blue Lotus, but with Mediterrainian mythology. Looks pretty good. (And maybe they would be willing to lend their model of a gorgon to BL. Maybe make it a tengu...)

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=767

[Masonop]

Can you fix the link to filefront?
I cant seem to download from the Rapidshare links, and filefront used to work for the file.
So I cant play the wonderful mod now.

[Rinsui]

A new version will be back up tomorrow (02.11.) evening, GMT. Promised.

[Masonop]

Thank you so very much good sir, I am excited.
Of course Fallout 3 has been on my agenda lately, lol.

[kitagata]

Stuff's been quiet lately, so I thought I'd upload some pictures.
I've been re-skinning and doing a little remodeling on some units, just to my own taste.
In particular, I think the Choson and Kharazai lack diversity in their units. (Due to them being a minor faction in the old edition.)
So here are a few Choson units I've changed to try to remove the Yuwan/Zhuanshi elements left from making these new units.
Feedback would be appreciated, and if anyone wants them, just ask.

Okubo Militia


Yedo Swordsmen


Borderland Scouts

[Masonop]

The new update didnt work so well...lawl.

[Rinsui]

@Masonop: why?
@ Kitagata: I/we want them. Please give me a download link, your changes are appreciated.

[Masonop]

I got these huge icons over every province, and the bar for the map/stats/info/ and everything else dissapeared off the screen so I could only see a blip of it.
I think though, I will re-download it and try again sometime.

[kitagata]

Rinsui: Here are the Choson models I've been messing with. I think they give the Choson their own feel, and make them a little more interesting. Not sure about the Sunogung, it may need some work.

http://files.filefront.com/Modded+Ch.../fileinfo.html

I'm working on a unique Choson general, since I figured out how to make the Choson/Spain faction use the Carthaginian general, not the Celtic one.

[Masonop]

This is an image of the issue I have, and this is in game.
https://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whathaxr2.png
I get big ole green icons and I cant even see what I am doing because the entire bar at the bottom is gone.
I wonder why it is like this.
0-0

[Rinsui]

@Masonop
Whoa. I have no clue what you did to achieve that. Though I must admit I like the refreshing green.
No, serious: I am sorry Masonop, but this is the first time I see such a screenshot. And I just tested my own freshly reinstalled version which works perfectly well. I'll upload a new base version this sunday, so I propose you completely (completely means: manually delete all remaining RTW folders after you uninstalled) uninstall that junk and reinstall the new version.

[Masonop]

I'll do that and see how it goes.
Thankies good sir.
^_^

[Masonop]

Well I got it to work, finally found out what was wrong.

But now all the units for everyone in the game are "sexy dummies"?
Is that a joke? Lol.

[kitagata]

Hey Rinsui, scaled down the campaign map watchtowers. Before they were too big, so I made them around the same height/width as the vanilla RTW towers.

http://files.filefront.com/watchtowe.../fileinfo.html

Also I've been messing a little more with the units. Let me know if you want any of these as well.

I made a slightly distinct Choson banner, by changing the kamidana's roof and banners and adding bells.


Gaur Hunters, done as more wild, fur-wearing animal hunters.


Karazai Officer with better armor and less fat.


I made the Iron Wall look a little more striking with some gold trim.


Terracotta spearmen with glowing eyes and older style Chinese pikes.


Militia looking less colorful and more... militia-like.

[Rinsui]

@kitagata
I'm in for the Gaur hunters, the Terracotta guys and... hell, zip + post them all.
BTW, a new yuwan officer for you.

[kitagata]

The crew working on Ran no Jidai are doing a great job. Any chance someone could talk with them and see if they'd be willing to share their walls? I know they were allowed the BL buildings.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=43172&page=19

[Wundai]

Good idea.

Mod Leader = Kagemusha
Builder of the RNJ walls = Prometheus(who used to be its mod leader but stepped down a few years ago)

Good Luck ;)