Greeks and Hellenes and Macedonians oh my!

[TWFanatic]

Hello,

I am rather confused tbh regarding the difference between those three nationalities, ethnicities, or whatever they're called. I've always thought that Hellenistic was just another word for Greek (thus Hellenes=Greeks). But I noticed that in EB, Macedonian units are referred to as "Hellenistic" more than Greek (KH) units. For example, Macedonian Pezhetairoi are called "Hellenistic Medium Phalanx" and Greek Pezhetairoi are called "Greek Phalanx."

So are Hellenes Macedonians but not Greeks, or are the Greek Hellenes too? Are Macedonians ethnic Greeks or are they all ethnic Hellenes? Perhaps Hellenes just = Greeks, and Macedonians are a separate group of people. Or is there any difference at all between the three terms except that "Macedonians" are just Greeks who settled a little further north and managed to unite the rest of Greece under King Philip? Gah!

Also, did Alexander and his generals consider themselves "Greeks" or "Hellenes" in general or just strictly Macedonians? Did they give "Greece" a sense of nationalism as this alleged historian guy I saw on the History channel claim, or did they conquer Greece and consider the Greeks their subjects, much like the Persians, only more similar culturally? In other words, did Philip "conquer" Greece or "unite" Greece?

I have always been taught that Greeks and Macedonians and Hellenes were the same people. Every single teacher and professor I have ever had made no distinction and freely called Megas Alexandros "Greek." Is this correct?

I have heard that there are some angry forumers who like to flame about this. If you are one of those angry forumers, please refrain from posting. I would like to have a serious discussion on this, not a flame-fest.

[Ibrahim]

www.europabarbarorum.com

they finally have a macedonian history...

[Torvus]

Hellenes usually refers to the mainstream Greeks of Sparta and Athens. however, it is sometimes used to refer to Greeks who live in Asia.

Also, neither Phillip nor Alexander "conquered" Greece. they made the Greek city-states bend their knees to them, but did not make them submit to Macedonian government, like they did to all the other areas they conquered.

[Olaf The Great]

I'm going to assume its called the "Hellenistic" age because the Hellenes were a much more unified people.

[keravnos]

Hellenes would be all the peoples living in the balkans who spoke the greek language and also lived in the same way of life.

A short distinction would be the Hellenes of the South who lived in city states and Hellenes of the North, organised in Kingdoms or tribal confederacies. Those would be Epeiros and Makedonia.

They were called "Graecum" by the Romani, because of a colony of Neapolis in Italy, called "Graia". (There are other theories as well).

Hellenistic comes from the greek verb "ΕΛΛΗΝΙΖΩ" meaning "Becoming greek/trying to be greek/immitating greeks"

[sass]

Don't even get me started....There are no More Hellenes Greeks steal our history NO where in history did Macedonians ever consider them selfs greek or greeks Macedonians.

Macedonia Never Hellenic or Greek!!

http://www.putfile.com/kozabashia

[Timoleon]

Hellenes would be all the peoples living in the balkans who spoke the greek language and also lived in the same way of life.

A short distinction would be the Hellenes of the South who lived in city states and Hellenes of the North, organised in Kingdoms or tribal confederacies. Those would be Epeiros and Makedonia.

They were called "Graecum" by the Romani, because of a colony of Neapolis in Italy, called "Graia". (There are other theories as well).

Hellenistic comes from the greek verb "ΕΛΛΗΝΙΖΩ" meaning "Those who are becoming greeks"

Just to complete keravnos' post, Hellenes and Greeks are the same thing. Hellenes is what they called themselves, Greeks (Graeci in latin) is what others call them.
When the Greeks started expanding eastwards after the conquest of Alexander the Great, many natives (Egyptians, Persians, etc) started speaking Greek and having the greek way of life. So, the word hellenistic refers to the Greeks and natives that where becoming Greeks and lived to the areas of the expansion after Alexander's campaigns.

Don't even get me started....There are no More Hellenes Greeks steal our history NO where in history did Macedonians ever consider them selfs greek or greeks Macedonians.

Macedonia Never Hellenic or Greek!!

Please don't start this kind of conversation again. This forum is NOT for propaganda!

PS1: We Greeks (or Hellenes as we call ourselves) we have more history than we can handle! We don't need to steal any from anyone!

PS2: I can see this thread closing very soon...

[Cambyses]

My understanding is that this is much more a modern concern than an ancient one. Someone born in Athens would have considered themselves Athenian first, Ionian second, Greek/Hellenic third.

They would never have considered themselves comparable to a Macedonian. Remember Thessalians (who lived a lot closer) were always referred to as barbarian in the earlier texts...

Just read Herodotus re Xerxes's invasion of Greece.

Its all propaganda. Alexander and Phillip wanted the city states to fight for them, so they got in this whole thing about "freeing" the Greek speaking people in Asia Minor.

Ah, anyway, this is a well debated subject that Im sure several people on here could write a book on. Best to do a few internet searches to get a balanced view.

[sass]

My understanding is that this is much more a modern concern than an ancient one. Someone born in Athens would have considered themselves Athenian first, Ionian second, Greek/Hellenic third.

They would never have considered themselves comparable to a Macedonian. Remember Thessalians (who lived a lot closer) were always referred to as barbarian in the earlier texts...

Just read Herodotus re Xerxes's invasion of Greece.

Its all propaganda. Alexander and Phillip wanted the city states to fight for them, so they got in this whole thing about "freeing" the Greek speaking people in Asia Minor.

Ah, anyway, this is a well debated subject that Im sure several people on here could write a book on. Best to do a few internet searches to get a balanced view.

Yes your correct, So i supose letting them claim fame from our Rep...Gets those filthy helots to fight and make them selfs arrow sponges then more power to them and maybe in ther next civil war those turc-greeks will give me my back yard back since thy both take things that are not theres Nazi

[KhaziOfKalabara]

I'm going to assume its called the "Hellenistic" age because the Hellenes were a much more unified people.

More that the ruling classes in the dominant powers in the eastern Mediterranean were Greek-speaking, as a result of Alexander's conquests; in contrast to the earlier Classical era, when the Achmaenid Persians ruled much of 'the east', and the later Roman era, which we all learnt so much about from vanilla RTW...

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I'm going to preemptively strike this thread.
The opening post's question has been, for the most part, answered.