The Casse In History

[Bellum]

Do you know about when these coins were made?

[Elmetiacos]

Most of the coins come from the 1st Century BC or just before the Claudian invasion. There are no British coins dated to as early as 272 BC, although there were Gaulish coins being struck at this time (copies of the Massilian drachma with the head of Artemis and the lion, which is copied on some British coins also)

I'm afraid I seem to have hit a dead end, now. I don't think it's possible to pin down the Casse any more precisely. They seem to have been a sub-tribe either of the Catuvellauni or the Trinovantes, but otherwise nothing to do with Cassivellaunus. Either way, they would start very small in EB.

[lobf]

Most of the coins come from the 1st Century BC or just before the Claudian invasion. There are no British coins dated to as early as 272 BC, although there were Gaulish coins being struck at this time (copies of the Massilian drachma with the head of Artemis and the lion, which is copied on some British coins also)

I'm afraid I seem to have hit a dead end, now. I don't think it's possible to pin down the Casse any more precisely. They seem to have been a sub-tribe either of the Catuvellauni or the Trinovantes, but otherwise nothing to do with Cassivellaunus. Either way, they would start very small in EB.

God, I hope it doesn't come off like I've got some kind of crusade against the Casse, but who would this faction even be? There's no history, nothing detailing their culture or habits or anything. It just seems too murky.

Forgive me, I just woke up and my words aren't running full speed yet.

[Elmetiacos]

Anyone in Britain is murky in 272 BC. The tribe we probably know most about is the Brigantes and even then, all we can really do is make an educated guess about where their capital was and that they'd been the dominant tribe in the North since c. 430 BC. If I had to choose a background for the Cassi based on history I'd make them a Trinovantian sept and put their capital at Braughing, a couple of spaces West of the current "Camulosadae" amidst a rather chaotic political situation in the South. There should be lots of Eleutheroi armies crawling all over. I'd call Braughing either:
Cassodunon - "Fortress of the Cassi"
Novodunon - "New fortress"
Abonauinda - "White river" because of the River Quin

The original name itself I think was probably *Castoi, not Casse.

[blitzkrieg80]

you might be interested to know that I am suggesting a name-change of Carrodunum to Karrodunon similar to what you suggested, since there is no reason such a far-away place would be Latinized during the EB start... so you were right on that

how could it be Castoi? isn't there a st/tt>ss rule? i am curious more than anything because i dont really understand how this rule applies to some things but not on others

[paullus]

having done a bit of reading on archaeological work in the area, it seems that the Middle Pre-Roman Iron Age (corresponding to La Tene B-C mainly) differs drastically in Britain from the Late Pre-Roman Iron Age (late LT C and LT D, roughly 150 BC on), with the latter period bringing the introduction of coinage, continental or Belgic pottery, larger and more developed oppida, and clearer signs of an organized, stratified society.

Now, the traditional interpretation has been to see in this the mid-2c arrival in SE England of Belgae tribes, and thus a shift in the social structure and material culture of SE Britain. It has also been argued that the changes seen in the mid-2c reflect the culmination of changes that began c.300 BC. In the 3c, previously undeveloped areas of "marginal" Britain began seeing greater development, and in their use of hillfort-oppida and more advanced use of land, the inhabitants of those lands demonstrate the ingenuity, organization, and precautions of large-scale successful pioneers, according to some interpretations. The slow emergence of social strata, signified by the very slow emergence of fibulae, and the development of both warrior burials or devoted weapons in the "marginal" zones from the 3c onwards, and chieftain burials in the SE oppida in the 1c bc, may indicate that the mid 2c event marks the culmination of developments that really began in the 3c.

The question then is how you want to interpret the various types of expansion. You see, in the 3c in the Midlands and such, this innovative expansionism. Because of the lack of evidence for a highly stratified society in the central areas, its hard to posit an organized project of expansion into the margins. But it does seem that the expansion projects have a reflexive effect on the older centers, at which places--by virtue of internal developments or by the arrival of Belgic invaders--some really powerfully evident changes take place relatively quickly in the middle and late 2c bc.

Also, Yorkshire, corresponding I suppose to the Brigantes, seems to be the place with the greatest evidence of La Tene culture: swords, torcs, inhumation ritual, metalworking of various sorts, etc, prior to the explosion of continental materials and oppida in the mid 2c.

And I haven't read it, but it sounds like Cunliffe's Iron Age Communities in Britain would be a useful source.

[Elmetiacos]

you might be interested to know that I am suggesting a name-change of Carrodunum to Karrodunon similar to what you suggested, since there is no reason such a far-away place would be Latinized during the EB start... so you were right on that

how could it be Castoi? isn't there a st/tt>ss rule? i am curious more than anything because i dont really understand how this rule applies to some things but not on others

What there is, in Gaulish specifically, is a change of st to "Tau Gallica" (similar to an eð but with the stroke all the way across) pronounced /ts/ or /ss/ hence the goddess Sirona (whose name derives from earlier ster-) sometimes appears as Ðirona. Since we've got words like cast, cystal and stwc in Welsh, it appears this change didn't happen in Brythonic, so if the meaning is curly-haired/complicated/handsome then it would have been *Castoi. Caesar used Gauls as interpreters in Britain, so they may pronounced it cass- or cats-.

[azzbaz]

Is it possible that the Castoi/Cassi weren't even in britain at this time but were part of the Belgae/Firbolgi tribal confederation? That maybe around 50bc migrated from the mainland to Britain to escape the Romans?
And isn't Braughing the 'Trinovantian' capital. I mean the Cassi and Trinovantes are seperate people, aren't they?
I reckon that the Brigantes should be the only tribe in Britain if so.