OOC Thread and Chatroom

**Privateerkev** · 07-23-2008, 16:36

Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

Also I looked the election voting thread...
If there would be rule that says "Candidates can't vote," then Savvas would've had a chance to become the Megas

Like I said a page or so back, the election was decided before it started. Welcome to politics...

Look through KotR and you'll see plenty of instances of people rigging elections ahead of time. The form of democracy in these games is quite problematic. (That is not criticism by the way.) Because of the feudal system, there are webs of power relations that prevent a true "one-person, one vote" situation. So, influence and pressure is applied to various people and the votes come down a certain way.

But, the only constant in these games is change. Who is your ally today might hate you, or like someone better, tomorrow. And who might hate your guts today might vote for you tomorrow. So, it's just a matter of figuring out those webs of influence and learning how to pull on the strings.

Originally Posted by Knights_of_Palma

I think there should be that rule. I mean getting +3 influence and then voting for yourself is a bit unfair.

I see no problem with voting for yourself. This isn't meant to be fair. This... is fuedalism! :D

**AussieGiant** · 07-23-2008, 17:11

Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Look through KotR and you'll see plenty of instances of people rigging elections ahead of time.

Good god!! Are you serious PK!! Who the hell would have been so low as to rig elections!!??

I mean the cheek of these people.

**Privateerkev** · 07-23-2008, 17:16

Originally Posted by AussieGiant

Good god!! Are you serious PK!! Who the hell would have been so low as to rig elections!!??

I mean the cheek of these people.

I know AG, I know! The nerve of these people!

I mean, who did Jan think he was, bribing Hans to throw the election to Matthias!?!

**Ibn-Khaldun** · 07-23-2008, 17:19

I have nothing against that influence thing ..
This is politics after all .. just like you said..
But if a guy with +10 influence goes against 9 people with +1 influence then .. THAT is unfair

But come to think of it ... Perhaps this could be good for the game ..
Those 9 other people can just decapitate that 1 guy who thinks too much of him self

**Privateerkev** · 07-23-2008, 17:22

Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

I have nothing against that influence thing ..
This is politics after all .. just like you said..
But if a guy with +10 influence goes against 9 people with +1 influence then .. THAT is unfair

But come to think of it ... Perhaps this could be good for the game ..
Those 9 other people can just decapitate that 1 guy who thinks too much of him self

We're probably going to come upon that very situation. In KotR, Kaiser Henry had 10 influence because of his authority. It took a large part of the Diet to overcome his votes. You can see that struggle best in the election of Chancellor Hummel.

Though in this game, like you mentioned, there are ways to take care of 10 Authority avatars...

**Cecil XIX** · 07-23-2008, 17:57

Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Though in this game, like you mentioned, there are ways to take care of 10 Authority avatars...

Although that would be pretty hard to do against avatars as well respected as Henry.

**Privateerkev** · 07-23-2008, 18:03

Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

Although that would be pretty hard to do against avatars as well respected as Henry.

That's true but it is possible. Even 9 strators could probably take down a royal army due to the Jedi-like abilities of RBG's. So they wouldn't need the support of the Megas or higher ranking lords.

My point to IK was that it all balances out. An Emperor can get 10 authority, and have a massive influence in voting. But he is only one man. He'll need to gain and maintain a web of support from among the other nobles. Even the ones without land since he could be mobbed by a bunch of them if they gang up on him.

**flyd** · 07-23-2008, 20:01

I just had a crazy thought. What if, for example, Kalameteros, who is at the top of the Asteri chain, swore an oath to Laskaris, who is at the bottom of the very same chain? There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules that prohibits it. The "number of vassals" quantities would start to get a little bit undefined, but I think everyone would shoot up to Exarch if you counted around the loop a few times...

**Privateerkev** · 07-23-2008, 20:12

Originally Posted by FLYdude

I just had a crazy thought. What if, for example, Kalameteros, who is at the top of the Asteri chain, swore an oath to Laskaris, who is at the bottom of the very same chain? There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules that prohibits it. The "number of vassals" quantities would start to get a little bit undefined, but I think everyone would shoot up to Exarch if you counted around the loop a few times...

I'm sure TC will come up with a more lawyerly way to refute it but here is my take.

Here is the penalty for Exarch:

Penalties:
(1) Cannot swear an Oath of Fealty to another Senator

This would effectively break the circle.

Now, if the House has less than 7 people, this rule wouldn't forbid it.

But, keep this in mind, there has to be someone at the top of the chain.

Many powers have the exception:

unless the X is loyal to a Y.

Which means, if your loyal to someone else, you can't use your power, such as priority or destruction.

In a circle, everyone is loyal to someone.

I guess by this logic, if there are 6 people, all 6 would be Dukes since each person would have 5 vassals.

So um... I hope it isn't allowed. Even if we have to come up with some sort of "gentleman's agreement" to forbid it.