OOC Thread and Chatroom

[TinCow]

When did TC promised to come back??

I just noticed that the Senate Library haven't been updated

Updating the Library is a lot of work, so I only do it during normal Senate sessions. Between sessions, I will update changes in the feudal structure if I see them or if they are pointed out to me, but that's all.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Oh.. I just thought that you have missed it or forgot to do it :)

[Privateerkev]

We have (another) problem with the traits.

The Emperor has "offends the nobility." Basically, the game is gearing up for a civil war. It has given a lot of the avatars either "obedient to his liege" or "disobeys his liege" which raises or lowers their loyalty trait.

I think that is why Savvas keeps rebelling. (and it is also the same trait Tristan brought up earlier today.)

I recommend we take that trait off of the Emperor and make sure the other two traits aren't on any avatars before proceeding. Otherwise we're going to start losing avatars. Not just Savvas, but Nathanail is down to 0 loyalty because of this. I'm sure ATPG's avatar is probably in the negatives...

[deguerra]

Ouch.

It seems the game has given us a full on civil war. All characters have been labeled either disobedient or loyal, with severe effects.

Personally, I think we should just remove these traits from the game once and for all. This whole mechanic, while nice for SP, does nothing for us in LotR.

[ULC]

I expect Ramses to dash in any moment now...

[_Tristan_]

Methodios is also down to 0 loyalty and lost 2 command stars due to the Disobedience trait

[AussieGiant]

I'm starting to get a little concerned with the amount of "On the fly" modding we are doing.

It's all understandable but it's becoming quite invasive at this point of the game.

[Privateerkev]

Methodios is also down to 0 loyalty and lost 2 command stars due to the Disobedience trait

Yeah, the disobedience trait is a direct result of the civil war mechanic going into full swing. It's basically picking sides for our avatars. (I'm amused that Mak has "Obedient." Apparently he will side with the Emperor during the civil war.) o_O

[ULC]

And I am the only one totally unaffected by this? My Avatars loyalty hasn't changed one bit...

[AussieGiant]

I also seem to be immune for the most part.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

At least I am Obedient to the Liege

And I found out that ATPG's avatar is Obedient too! Go figure

[ULC]

At least I am Obedient to the Liege

And I found out that ATPG's avatar is Obedient too! Go figure

o_O?!

The game has officially lost it's last thread of intelligence...

[pevergreen]

Last I checked I had unwatched by the king but nothing else. I'm happy to leave it there though.

[Cecil XIX]

I'm starting to get a little concerned with the amount of "On the fly" modding we are doing.

It's all understandable but it's becoming quite invasive at this point of the game.

It's inevitable. A lot of the big mods like this have traits that are designed designed to make it easier to roleplay your generals in single-player. For games like LOTR, that often leads to contridiction and redundancy.

[AussieGiant]

It's inevitable. A lot of the big mods like this have traits that are designed designed to make it easier to roleplay your generals in single-player. For games like LOTR, that often leads to contridiction and redundancy.

Good to know that is the "concept" behind what we are seeing.

Thanks Cecil.

[_Tristan_]

The "concept" turns out to be more of an impediment than an help in RPing our characters...

[AussieGiant]

The "concept" turns out to be more of an impediment than an help in RPing our characters...

That seems to be the case. But at least I now know what is going on. It was starting to become a little mystifying to me.

[_Tristan_]

The more so, than checking the triggers, I couldn't find one that got Methodios his "Disobedience" trait...

[TinCow]

I have looked through the game files and Offensive to Nobles is the trigger to the entire Civil War system that makes loyalty go crazy and eventually causes people to become 'locked' and rebel. If that trait was removed or neutered in the proper fashion, the Civil War system would essentially be switched off.

If you would like, I would be willing to do a new version of LotRMod which does the following:
Prevents the Civil War system from operating by removing or altering Offensive to Nobles
Removes all positive and negative effects from the Unwatched by the King and Has the King's Eye line of traits - or as an alternative, just remove them altogether.

These changes would be a one-time thing which would have to be re-installed by anyone who is hitting the end turn button (and preferably everyone) but we would never have to deal with these problems again if we did this. I would also edit the current save game to remove all of the Civil War traits that have popped up, to ensure that it does not occur this time either.

If you want this, just call an Emergency Session and we'll put it to the vote. Since I will be away for this afternoon, if someone wants to get this going, just propose the following Edicts and we'll move directly to a vote ASAP. Voting on each of these individually will allow the changes to be customized as desired:

Edict E3.1: TinCow will create a new LotRMod which will remove all of the Civil War trait mechanics from the game.

Edict E3.2: TinCow will create a new LotRMod which will remove the Near Loyalty and Far Loyalty (Unwatched by the King) traits lines from the game.

Edict E3.3: TinCow will create a new LotRMod which will remove Title Stripped! line of traits from the game.

Edict E3.4: TinCow will create a new LotRMod which will remove Pagan Magicians from the game.

Edict E3.5: TinCow will prevent the current game from going into Civil War by removing all of the relevant traits from all avatars.

Here are all of the triggers that result in the Basileus getting Offensive to Nobles. These would have to be removed to prevent the system from triggering:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not1
WhenToTest BecomesFactionLeader

Condition Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and SettlementsTaken >= 5


Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 1

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not2
WhenToTest BecomesFactionLeader

Condition Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and SettlementsTaken >= 10


Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 2

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not3
WhenToTest BecomesFactionLeader

Condition Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and SettlementsTaken >= 20
and FactionIsLocal ;If the ai gets this big it deserves to STAY this big.


Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 3

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Usurper1 ;usurper or asserting newly blue hued blood.
WhenToTest BecomesFactionLeader

Condition Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and SettlementsTaken >= 5
and Trait SonofKingPrince <= 0
and FactionIsLocal

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 3

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Usurper1ai ;usurper or asserting newly blue hued blood.
WhenToTest BecomesFactionLeader

Condition Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and SettlementsTaken >= 8
and Trait SonofKingPrince <= 0
and not FactionIsLocal

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 1

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not_progress
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 1

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 2

;------------------------------------------

Trigger civil_war_or_not_progress_expedite ;since the king isn't around... let's check again...
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and DistanceCapital >= 50
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 1
and FactionIsLocal ;not for the AI

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 3

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not_progress_expedite_1 ;The King is a Bad Fink!
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Attribute Chivalry < -5
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 1

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 2

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not_progress_expedite_2 ;The King is a Fink, sorta...
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Attribute Chivalry < 0
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 1

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 1

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not_progress_stop ;The King is a Truly, truly nice guy; reverse the possibility of war if it's not too late...
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Attribute Chivalry > 4
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 1

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles -1 Chance 4

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Disgust_with_King's_Unreasonable_Finances ;Despite his burdensome taxes to support war and other strange notions and we are still in debt!
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Treasury < 0
and Attribute Authority <= 5


Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 5

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Disgust_with_King's_Religiona ;The King is not looking out for the salvation of our souls
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionExcommunicated
and IsFactionLeader
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and CharacterReligion catholic
and Attribute Piety <= 4 ;so it isn't just a political thing the Pope is perpetrating but truly, disgustingly, a deserved Excommunication!
and FactionIsLocal ;AI has a lesser chance

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 5

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Disgust_with_King's_Religionb_ai ;The King is not looking out for the salvation of our souls
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionExcommunicated
and IsFactionLeader
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and CharacterReligion catholic
and Attribute Piety <= 4 ;so it isn't just a political thing the Pope is perpetrating but truly, disgustingly, a deserved Excommunication!
and not FactionIsLocal ;strictly AI

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 2

;------------------------------------------

[TinCow]

The more so, than checking the triggers, I couldn't find one that got Methodios his "Disobedience" trait...

Once the Basileus gets Offensive to Nobles, all avatars eventually become Loyal or Disobedient. It's part of the Civil War system:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Loyalstarta
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionLeaderTrait Offensive_To_Nobles >= 1
and IsGeneral
and Trait Disobedient = 0 ;as this is the initial step- no returning back...
and Trait Obedient = 0
and Attribute Loyalty >= 6
and not IsFactionLeader

Affects Obedient 1 Chance 25 ;tended this way

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Rebelstarta
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionLeaderTrait Offensive_To_Nobles >= 1
and IsGeneral
and Attribute Loyalty <= 5
and Trait Disobedient = 0
and Trait Obedient = 0
and not IsFactionLeader

Affects Disobedient 1 Chance 25 ;tended this way

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Rebelstart
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionLeaderTrait Offensive_To_Nobles >= 1
and IsGeneral
and Trait Disobedient = 0
and Trait Obedient = 0
and not IsFactionLeader

Affects Disobedient 1 Chance 33 ;about a third of the rest of the nobility goes down this path

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Rebelend
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionLeaderTrait Offensive_To_Nobles >= 2
and IsGeneral
and Trait Disobedient = 1
and not Trait Obedient >= 1

Affects Disobedient 1 Chance 33 ;eventually you WILL gain it it's just a matter of time...

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Loyalstart
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionLeaderTrait Offensive_To_Nobles >= 1
and IsGeneral
and Trait Disobedient = 0 ;as this is the initial step- no returning back...
and Trait Obedient = 0
and not IsFactionLeader

Affects Obedient 1 Chance 66 ;about two-thirds of the rest of the nobility goes down this path

;------------------------------------------

[_Tristan_]

Missed them altogether...

[Rowan]

I think this is what triggered the rebellion:

trigger Disgust_with_King's_Unreasonable_Finances ;Despite his burdensome taxes to support war and other strange notions and we are still in debt!
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Treasury < 0
and Attribute Authority <= 5


Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 5

But this time it's actually the faction heir that has driven the empire into debt...

If this were a single player campaign I would actually like the mechanic but now it just messes up the game.

Btw does anyone know if there are any other surprises lurking in the traits system we should know about?

[Ramses II CP]

Ramses dashes by at the speed of sound trailing a brief, doppler distorted;

'ttttoooooolllldddd yyoooouuuuuu ssooooooooo.'



So if we're hotseat enabled could we just let the civil war proceed and actually play the rebel characters?

[Privateerkev]

3.1, 3.3, and 3.5 should definitely pass in my opinion. The civil wars are something we should do in the game ourselves IC and we have rules for it. And the title switching is something we do IC and we shouldn't be punished traitwise for it.

I wouldn't mind seeing 3.2 and 3.4 pass but I acknowledge that some people want the traits to reflect their loyalty and some people want to RP pagan magicians. In my opinion though, the near/far loyalty system and pagan magicians are far more trouble than they are worth.

[_Tristan_]

3.1, 3.3, and 3.5 should definitely pass in my opinion. The civil was are something we should do in the game ourselves IC and we have rules for it. And the title switching is something we do IC and we shouldn't be punished traitwise for it.

I wouldn't mind seeing 3.2 and 3.4 pass but I acknowledge that some people want the traits to reflect their loyalty and some people want to RP pagan magicians. In my opinion though, the near/far loyalty system and pagan magicians are far more trouble than they are worth.

Very much my own opinion...

[Rowan]

Very much my own opinion...

Agreed.

It seems quite a lot of people have some trouble with installing mods without installers. I could volunteer to try to make an installer for a new LotR mod if people feel that would help.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm back.

From what I've read, the game is getting wacky, but can anybody tell me how the actual Crusade is going?

[Privateerkev]

I'm back.

From what I've read, the game is getting wacky, but can anybody tell me how the actual Crusade is going?

7 people went. 3 Order, 2 Asteri, 1 Tapeki, and Methodios.

6 of them boarded their ships and are docked off of Constantinople. 1 Asteri was sabotaged and is still waiting on the dock to board.

[Zim]

I think we have seven characters going on crusade. 6 have their fleets (Efstathios' was sabotaged and lost a turn) and they should set forth this turn.

Edit: Curses, one minute off.

I'm back.

From what I've read, the game is getting wacky, but can anybody tell me how the actual Crusade is going?

[GeneralHankerchief]

All right, so the potential civil war thingy isn't messing it up?