Everything to do with battles

[salemty]

hi everybody! im made this thread so people can post about everything to do with batles, such as anti phalanx tactics, how to use phalanx efectivley, anti barbarian tactics and so on. also feel free to post about amazing battles u've won against the odds and tell us how u did it and even battles you've lost so we can learn from your mistakes.

[Bartholemew-Varath]

Ok, well ill post first then, heres a few anti-phalanx tactics:

Phalanxes are a strong formation which is top heavy, meaning that one side is strong and the other side is weak. The side with long spears pointing at you is the heavy and generally most threatening side. So what you want to do is hit the weaker side with an overpowering unit which will also break the stronger side. To do this pin the stronger side with a weaker unit of your army (its going to take a few casualties anyway so make it a weaker and less important unit in your army) Pin them with the weaker unit first, then hit their rear with the stronger unit, and they will hopefully switch to swords and get massacred, or they may use pikes and still lose, oh well. The morale will still drop due to many things, outnumbered, flanked, etc.

I may post more later on, but thats all for now

[Quintus.JC]

I generally compare pikemen as weaker to hoplites, for some reason hoplites seems harder to rout than pikemen, perhaps due to the reason pikemen fare worse at close combats. Phalanx are relatively easy to beat once you get used to it. Low-tier phalanx troops such Milita hoplites and levy pikemen could be broken with one singer cavalry charge at the flank or rear. medium type such as hoplites and phalanx pikemen are harder to beat, but are proven routable with 1 unit attacking the front with the other assulting their rear. Higher tier Phalanx are troublesome and must be dealt separatly, armored Hoplites are almost undefeatable front-on and can hold their own very well in melee as well, normally these type of troops can not be routed with one single charge. Other phalanx at the extrem end of the power-scale such as Spartans and Sacred Band takes really effort to be beaten. Although phalanx troops are meant to fare very well against cavalry I normally find them to be the best to rout a phalanx, one powerful charge down the flank or rear, and if this isn't enough then pull your horsemen out before suffering too much casulty and charge again, heavy cavalry such as Cataphracts and Companions very high charge bonus are perfect for the job. Phalanx formation is also vulnerable to missile fire. It's probably worth mentioning that troops in phalanx formation are able to catching arrows easily on their shields, meaning that firing at them from the front is just about wasting your ammo, but firing front the back is completly different. Without their shields for protection they are lambs for the slaughter. This is an very effective way to kill off high-tier phalanx units without sustaining much casulty yourself. Even better if you use onagers, although unaccurate. These machine will cause massive damage due to the fact the phalanx is a densely packed formation. It is possible to rout a unit of phalanx with one hit. Phalanx formation is also vulnerable when marching through trees and that's the best time to attack them with your swords infantry, the trees will cut a whole in the formation and the unit could be broken instantly. Something that happened in the historical battle of Cynoscephalae

[salemty]

ok this seems to be going well. ill tell u about my anti phalanx tactic. i use a semicircle which works especially well against the macedonians which route nearly as soon as a couple of units are on their flank. so i set up like this

ha ha
ha ha
tw ho ho tw
v a a v
e g e

ha=hastati
ho=merc hoplites
tw=town watch
v= velites or merc peltats
a= archers
e= equites
g=general

so basically the phalnaxes wich attack my merc hoplittes will have a couple of hastati on their flank which greatly loweres their moral which makes them route easy. tw are used as cheap charge stoppers or reinforcemens. velites and archers attack them as they approach, lowering their moral. and equites are used as flankers. i play on hard, hard most of time and ive pretty much never lost a battle using this formation.

i also use hit and run tactics when i have very smal armys. ill tell u about a battle. i was brutii with 2 units of hastati. 2 units of veilites. 2 generals and 1 equites. enemy had many phalnx pikemen and levey pikemen with some mac cavalry and light lancers. his cavalry were to far ahead of his army so i destroyed them first. then using hit and run tactics and using my cavalry well i routed the rest of his army. i had 400 troops. he had 1200 of better quality troops. final death toll

Brutii
kills: 1156
losses: 229
Macedon
kils:229
losses:1156

[salemty]

dam formation came out wrong ill try again. the dots are just placeholders


ha................ha
.......ha.........ha
....tw....ho.ho..tw
.....v......a..a.....v
.....e.......g......e

[salemty]

it stil stufed up. the hastati up the top right are ment to be to the right a bit more but hopfully u get the idea

[placenik]

BTW, how do you folks play your battles- priority is wining or killing?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

That's a fairly good question placenik, although for me the priority is typically killing rather than winning. Of course by killing you often end up willing, but reductions in enemy troops are more important. Multiple encounters, each time resulting in victory but lots of damage, are more of a problem for a force than several defeats resulting in minimal losses and maximum enemy casualties.

For some factions, particularly horse archer based ones, hit and run attacks (attacking, causing damage and then withdrawing) are the best method of eventually gaining victory. These factions frequently do not have the power to win in one battle anyhow, mainly due to the lack of melee value of these units.

[placenik]

I asked because I always fight to max kills-loses ratio, while almost every guide is advising to rout enemy. It is quite dumb that when enemy rout/retreat it doesn't disperse into the fields, even in small percent.

[RLucid]

How do they differ? Generally when you engineer a rout, with plenty of pursuit opportunity you can inflict huge losses on enemy, with few casualties.

[placenik]

Differences:
1. You can inflict cassualties without victory.
2. If you rout cavalery, it is as good as if they have just withdrown.
3. Don't forget that you don't always have enough chasing power.

[Quintus.JC]

"I'm not interested in prisoners, slay them all." Quintus Julius Cicero's pre-battle speech.

I know you're not allowed to take prisoners in RTW, it's a nice catch-phrase. Anyway just a win isn't good enough for me, normally I tries to wipe the whole AI army, leave no survivers. That's why cavalry plays a signifcant role for me, and that's one of the reasons why I dislikes the Greeks.

[Slash]

One thing I learned the hard way, is never let the AI control your re-enforcement....in RTR the Gauls were besieging that one settlement with a B next to arretium(I forget the name) where Maesa Haemus was..a two star General, 21 years of age and son of Decimus Haemus whom was a five star general. Well in the battle where Decimus is attempting to keep his son from certain death, bum rushes the Gauls with his Merc army, destroyed and killed. He did enough damage to allow Maesa(me) to rout the seiging army...

I dont know how far off that is, but when it comes to battles, never trust the AI with your warriors.(I've been playing RTW for a year or so now, I avidly visited these forums but now im seeking to be more active in the community)

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Welcome to the forums Slash

I've had similar experiences with AI control in the past. The only issue is what you do if you need the extra troops. If you have a twenty unit force and there are re-enforcements available, then you either go for a gradual drip feed of troops which will be well managed or have them all come on to assist at once under low quality leadership. It's often a very difficult balancing act, considering the size of the enemy and the chances of victory in each scenario.

[salemty]

this seems to be going well, hopefully you continue to post. id just add a little comment. peasants can be very usefull against barbarians as romans. you can have your peasants as pritty much bait in front of your hastati. then while the barbarians are killing the peasants your hastati and velites can fire their missiles. you can then countercharge with your hastati. this tactic works very well for me.

my 2cents