Are you a virgin?

[HoreTore]

I wonder how he prooved that she was not virgin :) And how he knew what is difference beetwen virgin and no virgin :) Looks like he has double standards:)

Uhm... The article stated that quite clearly... No blood on the sheets = no hymen, which is likely to mean(but doesn't have to) that she isn't a virgin...

And I'm not sure about you, but I knew what happens when a girl has sex for the first time quite a few years before I had sex myself...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

If her virginity was important to him, and she lied to him about it, there's no reason he should not be allowed an annulment.

[LeftEyeNine]

That one is still a widespread tradition in Turkey.

Although modernity is surely effecting lives, loosening such nonsense taboos, it does not prevent from someone killing his "fresh" wife and himself afterwards leaving a note written with a lipstick on the mirror "Mother and father. I love you so much. The girl was 'broken' ". That happened last week.

[InsaneApache]

Good grief.

[PanzerJaeger]

That one is still a widespread tradition in Turkey.

Although modernity is surely effecting lives, loosening such nonsense taboos, it does not prevent from someone killing his "fresh" wide and himself afterwards leaving a note written with a lipstick on the mirror "Mother and father. I love you so much. The girl was 'broken' ". That happened last week.

Sick.

I don't get the whole virgin thing. Yay for awkward, bloody sex! Sounds like a great wedding night to me. Save the silk sheets you got a the reception for later..

[Ice]

Sick.

I don't get the whole virgin thing. Yay for awkward, bloody sex! Sounds like a great wedding night to me. Save the silk sheets you got a the reception for later..

Yeah, I'd have to agree. I mean it's one thing if the girl has been around the block more than a few (liberal use) times, but virginity is overrated.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I think courts should allow divorce on any ground. If you want to divorce because your wife can't bake great pizza, then fine, divorce. If you want to divorce because clouds covered the full moon when Jupiter was in Taurus, then hey, it's a free country.

In complete conflict with the above, I also think that French courts should not let themselves be used for sanctification of obscurantist beliefs. We are touching on the usual problems of a multi-cultural society again. If France is to be a multi-cultural, instead of a multi-etnic, society, then this sort of practice should be allowed, and sanctified in court. Just like polygamy, or ritual slaughter of animals.
If instead immigrants are to become integrated parts of France's social fabric, then none of that should stand up in court.

In this particular case, this conflict was mostly evaded. The husband filed for divorce on the grounds that he was lied to, a lie which undermined the relationship. Not the virginity itself was the ground. Clever.

This story is also about North African Muslims, who have a mostly different set of social customs. But I shall not turn this into a Muslim bash fest.
If only for this personal aside: my grandmother had to marry dressed in black. She became pregnant by her then boyfriend. Abortion was a definite no-no. Maybe she would've ended up marrying him, maybe not. As it was though, they were pushed into a hastily arranged (better perhaps: forced) marriage, to save her / the family's honour. Because she was not a virgin, she had to wear all-black at her wedding. It was very painful for her, a life-long embarrasment. Double standards applied as well, nobody cared about the virginity of her husband.
This was the nature of French smalltown Catholic society shortly before WWII. And it still lingers on in places.
Of course, half of the people who scorned her for it, who gossiped about it for decades, weren't virgins themselves when they married. Bah. Bunch of Catholic hypocrites.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I looked for a picture of a non-virgin bride in black for you, but couldn't find one that's as nice as the one below. This one's of a widow. Widows, like non-virgins, married in black, like in this movie poster:

[Adrian II]

I think courts should allow divorce on any ground.

Nuff said. The persons involved in the case are backward and silly, not French law.

[ajaxfetish]

I don't get the whole virgin thing. Yay for awkward, bloody sex! Sounds like a great wedding night to me.

While I get what you're saying, I don't see why a wedding night needs to be particularly suave. A first sexual experience is going to be awkward and bloody whether it happens as a curious teenager or a newlywed. Is that first experience something to be ashamed of and forgotten, or a memorable adventure?

Anyway, here's me looking forward to awkward, bloody sex this Wednesday. Yes, I'm a virgin, and no, I'm still not getting married in France.

Ajax

[Fragony]

Anyway, here's me looking forward to awkward, bloody sex this Wednesday. Yes, I'm a virgin, and no, I'm still not getting married in France.

Ajax

Congratulaitions

[PBI]

I feel I should just point out that the guy filed for annulment, not divorce. Two separate concepts.

Divorce is the process you have to go through to end a legitimate marriage. AFAIK you don't have to give any reason at all to do it, simply stating "I don't want to be married to my wife anymore" is sufficient, but he would have to go through all the expense of hiring lawyers, dividing assets etc.

Annulment is different in that it is essentially a declaration by the courts that the marriage was not legitimate. My understanding is that if an annulment is granted, it is as though the marriage never existed. For this the person seeking the annulment should have to give some sort of reason why the marriage was not legitimate.

In my opinion the virginity or otherwise of the bride should not be sufficient grounds for annulment; the reason should have to be along the lines of one of the couple having being coerced into the marriage, or if there is evidence of physical abuse, for example. If he afterwards decides he is not happy with his wife, he can file for divorce for whatever frivolous reason he wants.


Oh, and congratulations ajaxfetish, I assume that's what you were implying

Of course, half of the people who scorned her for it, who gossiped about it for decades, weren't virgins themselves when they married. Bah. Bunch of Catholic hypocrites.

I remember my mother telling me about an interesting discovery she made when researching our family history. While searching through the parish records of births, marriages and deaths, she was struck by the fact that, more often than not, the birth of a couple's first child occurred a lot less than nine months after the wedding. Makes me suspect that the idea of sex before marriage is far from being a modern invention.