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Thread: The Magnaura
If Caesar starts the Civil War then I will side with Makedonios.. I always knew that he is a shady character.. Unfortunately he still has his head on his shoulders..
Makedonios glares.
Efstathios, do not forget yourself...
There will be no threats made. I want civil war averted, not provoked.
Efstathios, do not forget yourself...
There will be no threats made. I want civil war averted, not provoked.
Turning to the Megas
May I see this letter?
May I see this letter?
I don't want Civil War either..
But even thinking of starting one should be punished..
But what more can I say..
Efstathios shakes his head and sighs..
This is madness! This is Byzantium!
But even thinking of starting one should be punished..
But what more can I say..
Efstathios shakes his head and sighs..
This is madness! This is Byzantium!
The Basileus begins to drum his fingers on the Throne, the sound echoes throughout the Magnaura.
To one side of the chamber there is clearly a hushed conference of the various Imperial scribes going on. At one point an especially large and surly looking scribe obviously threatens physical violence against another. Two more simply leave the room. At last a wizened, white haired man, visibly long in the service of the Empire, joins the group and silences the rest. He takes a letter bearing the seal of Vissarionas ek Lesvou from the hands of one of the lesser scribes, tears it into long strips, and, with the help of a tall glass of water, swallows them. Then he moves to the senate floor to address the body and reads from another sheet of paper, the contents of which cannot be seen.
Greetings noble Senators,
As I, Vissarionas ek Lesvou, have pointed out repeatedly down the years the Caesar has been manipulating this body and indeed this whole Empire to serve his end of destroying all the gains we have made in his father's time. He has thrown down every rule and law he chanced to come across in service to this goal. Do not pretend to be surprised, for you have been warned time and again that this day would come.
I beg you now, gentlemen, do not let this pass by unheeded. No sane man seeks a war within the Empire, nor, for all that I find the Caesar to lack the qualities necessary in a leader, or a man, do I wish the man himself any harm. Instead let us merely unite in condemning this madness, and make clear to this man that his actions will not be tolerated. Make it abundantly clear to him that war against one part of the Empire is war against the whole of the Empire.
Let him know that even an Emperor can be a rebel if all his people oppose him.
God save Basileus Aleksios Komnenos, and God save the Roman Empire!
Vissarionas ek Lesvou
Carefully folding the sheet of paper he read from the old scribe then walks slowly out of the room, answering no questions and turning aside for no one.
Greetings noble Senators,
As I, Vissarionas ek Lesvou, have pointed out repeatedly down the years the Caesar has been manipulating this body and indeed this whole Empire to serve his end of destroying all the gains we have made in his father's time. He has thrown down every rule and law he chanced to come across in service to this goal. Do not pretend to be surprised, for you have been warned time and again that this day would come.
I beg you now, gentlemen, do not let this pass by unheeded. No sane man seeks a war within the Empire, nor, for all that I find the Caesar to lack the qualities necessary in a leader, or a man, do I wish the man himself any harm. Instead let us merely unite in condemning this madness, and make clear to this man that his actions will not be tolerated. Make it abundantly clear to him that war against one part of the Empire is war against the whole of the Empire.
Let him know that even an Emperor can be a rebel if all his people oppose him.
God save Basileus Aleksios Komnenos, and God save the Roman Empire!
Vissarionas ek Lesvou
Carefully folding the sheet of paper he read from the old scribe then walks slowly out of the room, answering no questions and turning aside for no one.
Frowning at yet another letter from Vissarionas ek Lesvou, Apoionas stands.
I'm tiring of this clear charade of provocation and incitement from Vissarionas ek Lesvou. He seems to assume that distance equals some facade of safety. It certainly does not in my view.
I ask that the Imperial Administration or the Megas contacts him directly in order for him to present himself here for direct questioning by me as to his whereabouts and activities between the years 1106 and 1109!
I'm tiring of this clear charade of provocation and incitement from Vissarionas ek Lesvou. He seems to assume that distance equals some facade of safety. It certainly does not in my view.
I ask that the Imperial Administration or the Megas contacts him directly in order for him to present himself here for direct questioning by me as to his whereabouts and activities between the years 1106 and 1109!
I have seen nothing wrong with Vissa's last two letters. As for your request that he come for questioning, you can make it to the Emperor or simply ask Vissa himself. My office has no authority of it's own to bring in witnesses to the Senate. The Office of the Megas acts as an enforcement arm of the Senate itself. If the Emperor requests it, or if there is an Edict, then I will act.
I'm not particularly interested in anyone's opinion of his last two letters.
You are the Grand Master and head of the house he is a member of. Is it not possible in that capacity to ask him to present himself here?
You are the Grand Master and head of the house he is a member of. Is it not possible in that capacity to ask him to present himself here?
I am not particularly interested in your opinion of my opinion of his last two letters.
I could ask him to be here if I was convinced his presence was needed.
I know you and the Emperor are building a case against the Patriarch. And it is obvious that Vissa fits into that case. If you two have a case, then make it. Call him as an official witness.
I could ask him to be here if I was convinced his presence was needed.
I know you and the Emperor are building a case against the Patriarch. And it is obvious that Vissa fits into that case. If you two have a case, then make it. Call him as an official witness.
Patriarchal Representative:
Hearsay and lies, none of which can be proven. What they are doing would shame any legitimate prosecutor.
Hearsay and lies, none of which can be proven. What they are doing would shame any legitimate prosecutor.
You're a particularly pedantic individual Lord Ksanthopoulos, in addition you seem wholly arrogant in your approach to a simple request.
How the Emperor or I wish to proceed in any investigation is entirely at our own direction and not subject to how you seem to wish it.
I've asked you as the head of the house if you can request his presence here. I would say that is not beyond the bounds of what can be consider reasonable.
It seems that is beyond you at this point in time, or at least beneath what you consider important in your current position.
If that is the case then please state so formally if this is not too much trouble?
Apionnas smiles ruefully at the Patriarchal Representative.
I was certainly not expecting such an early appearance your Grace. It seems the a simple brushing of the Orthodox cage has elicited a response.
How the Emperor or I wish to proceed in any investigation is entirely at our own direction and not subject to how you seem to wish it.
I've asked you as the head of the house if you can request his presence here. I would say that is not beyond the bounds of what can be consider reasonable.
It seems that is beyond you at this point in time, or at least beneath what you consider important in your current position.
If that is the case then please state so formally if this is not too much trouble?
Apionnas smiles ruefully at the Patriarchal Representative.
I was certainly not expecting such an early appearance your Grace. It seems the a simple brushing of the Orthodox cage has elicited a response.
Patriarchal Representative:
Yes, the "Orthodox cage" has been brushed. You speak of it as if you are not one of us.
Yes, the "Orthodox cage" has been brushed. You speak of it as if you are not one of us.
Sorry Apionnas but I do not recognize your authority to subpoena witnesses. If you have this power, please point out the relevant section of the Rules. If you don't, then you are merely grandstanding.
So, either ask the entire Senate or the Emperor to subpoena Vissa. Or convince me that his presence is absolutely essential.
You have done none of the three. Now, if you have nothing more of substance to say on the matter, I consider the matter closed until the Emperor wishes to make his case.
So, either ask the entire Senate or the Emperor to subpoena Vissa. Or convince me that his presence is absolutely essential.
You have done none of the three. Now, if you have nothing more of substance to say on the matter, I consider the matter closed until the Emperor wishes to make his case.
Appionas, is this some kind of 'secret' investigation that you conduct?
If not then I, as a Senator, demand you to show me all materials and evidence that you have found so far.
If you don't then I'll propose an Edict the next Senate Session that will force you show all those evidence.
Now.. About this Caesars letter.. Where is he anyway?? Hiding in one of his cities?? Could Basileus sent a word that he would come here and answer to these accusations and the reason why he wrote that letter! Only a mad man would do that! Only a mad man would want to drive our Empire into Civil War!
I, as a Senator, demand that he would be brought here!!
About the sack of Alexandria.. We shouldn't forget this! People are talking over the letter and Caesar but they have forgotten what Methodios did! So far he haven't heard any good reason why he did what he did. He shouldn't get away from punishment!
If not then I, as a Senator, demand you to show me all materials and evidence that you have found so far.
If you don't then I'll propose an Edict the next Senate Session that will force you show all those evidence.
Now.. About this Caesars letter.. Where is he anyway?? Hiding in one of his cities?? Could Basileus sent a word that he would come here and answer to these accusations and the reason why he wrote that letter! Only a mad man would do that! Only a mad man would want to drive our Empire into Civil War!
I, as a Senator, demand that he would be brought here!!
About the sack of Alexandria.. We shouldn't forget this! People are talking over the letter and Caesar but they have forgotten what Methodios did! So far he haven't heard any good reason why he did what he did. He shouldn't get away from punishment!
Can we dispense with comments about an investigation. One has not been called as far as I can remember. It seems more than a few people are making assumptions about things.
I do not think it is beyond the bounds of one senator to ask questions of another, independent of any investigation here in this chamber. Especially this chamber actually.
Is anyone refuting this claim?
Does this need to be discussed at length using more pedantic reasoning, or can we make the assumption that the Magnaura is a place to discuss and inquire into the activities of the Empire.
Something I think we can all agree to no?
Turning to the Megas
Yet again your demeanour is extremely condescending Lord Megas. "A" matter is not closed simply because you wish it.
So I ask again, can Lord Vissa be requested to attend here personally by the Head of his house or not?
I do not think it is beyond the bounds of one senator to ask questions of another, independent of any investigation here in this chamber. Especially this chamber actually.
Is anyone refuting this claim?
Does this need to be discussed at length using more pedantic reasoning, or can we make the assumption that the Magnaura is a place to discuss and inquire into the activities of the Empire.
Something I think we can all agree to no?
Turning to the Megas
Yet again your demeanour is extremely condescending Lord Megas. "A" matter is not closed simply because you wish it.
So I ask again, can Lord Vissa be requested to attend here personally by the Head of his house or not?
After hearing Efstathios
Yes, lets look at the letter some more for it truly gives us insight into the man's mind.
Aides kindly distribute the copies again in case the newly arrived Senators have not seen it.
First, lets look at the provinces the Caesar wants to own personally:
Now lets look at the provinces he promises to House Asteri:
Now lets look at what the Caesar has in mind for legislation:
The Caesar wishes war on the Papacy, Venice, and the Holy Roman Empire. While also killing his own people. Not to mention the fact that we are already at war with the Moors, Turks, and Fatimids.
If he gets to implement this plan, he will rule a throne high up upon a pile of skulls...
Addresses Apionnas.
Convince me why he needs to be present.
Yes, lets look at the letter some more for it truly gives us insight into the man's mind.
Aides kindly distribute the copies again in case the newly arrived Senators have not seen it.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
First, lets look at the provinces the Caesar wants to own personally:
Originally Posted by :
Imperial Provinces:
Constantinople
Rome
Nicaea
Dardanellia
Antioch
Jerusalem
Alexandria
By having Rome and Jerusalem on there, the Caesar is making clear that he wishes to declare war on both the Holy Roman Empire and the Papacy. Also, I see Alexandria is on the list. I am sure Methodios would be thrilled about that...Imperial Provinces:
Constantinople
Rome
Nicaea
Dardanellia
Antioch
Jerusalem
Alexandria
Now lets look at the provinces he promises to House Asteri:
Originally Posted by :
House Asteri:
Athens
Thessalonica
Corinth
Arta
Dyracchion
Belgrade
Bucharest
Rhodes
Zagreb
Sofia
From the presence of Zagreb, it is clear that the Caesar wants to declare war on the Venetians as well. Also, I see Sofia and Bucharest on here. Something tells me that Senator Apionnas and the current Emperor were not consulted before this list was made...House Asteri:
Athens
Thessalonica
Corinth
Arta
Dyracchion
Belgrade
Bucharest
Rhodes
Zagreb
Sofia
Now lets look at what the Caesar has in mind for legislation:
Originally Posted by :
War may only be declared by the Basileus.
So, the Senate will no longer be able to pass Edicts declaring war? A blatant power grab...War may only be declared by the Basileus.
Originally Posted by :
All new provinces are at the disposal of the Basileus.
This means that House Leaders will no longer be able to distribute provinces to their own vassals. They would have to go begging to the Basileus even though it was their own armies that conquered the settlements.All new provinces are at the disposal of the Basileus.
Originally Posted by :
The Basileus army consists of a minimum of 8 infantry units, 2 missile units, 2 heavy cavalry units, and two artillery units.
The Emperor already gets a Royal Army.The Basileus army consists of a minimum of 8 infantry units, 2 missile units, 2 heavy cavalry units, and two artillery units.
Originally Posted by :
The Imperial Fleet is under the command of the Basileus.
The Imperial Fleet consists of a minimum of 8 ships.
Fleets are under control of the Megas. The Emperor already has a way to get ships under his command.The Imperial Fleet is under the command of the Basileus.
The Imperial Fleet consists of a minimum of 8 ships.
Originally Posted by :
The Caesar’s army consists of a minimum of 6 infantry units, 2 missile units, 2 heavy cavalry units, and two artillery units.
The Caesar already gets a Royal Army.The Caesar’s army consists of a minimum of 6 infantry units, 2 missile units, 2 heavy cavalry units, and two artillery units.
Originally Posted by :
A member of the House Asteri is always the Lord High Chancellor
A member of the House Komnenodoukai is always the Lord High Steward
The leaders of the Asteri and Komnenodoukai are on the Basileus’ Privy Council along with the Caesar.
Constantinople alone can recruit Varangian Guards.
The House Asteri commands the Western Legion, which consists of 12 infantry units, 2 missile units, 3 cavalry units, and 2 artillery units.
The House Komnenodoukai commands the Eastern Legion, which consists of 12 infantry units, 2 missile units, 3 cavalry units, and 2 artillery units.
This basically destroys the chance of there ever being more Houses. The Caesar is trying to bribe these two House Leaders in order to secure despotic power for himself.A member of the House Asteri is always the Lord High Chancellor
A member of the House Komnenodoukai is always the Lord High Steward
The leaders of the Asteri and Komnenodoukai are on the Basileus’ Privy Council along with the Caesar.
Constantinople alone can recruit Varangian Guards.
The House Asteri commands the Western Legion, which consists of 12 infantry units, 2 missile units, 3 cavalry units, and 2 artillery units.
The House Komnenodoukai commands the Eastern Legion, which consists of 12 infantry units, 2 missile units, 3 cavalry units, and 2 artillery units.
The Caesar wishes war on the Papacy, Venice, and the Holy Roman Empire. While also killing his own people. Not to mention the fact that we are already at war with the Moors, Turks, and Fatimids.
If he gets to implement this plan, he will rule a throne high up upon a pile of skulls...
Addresses Apionnas.
Convince me why he needs to be present.
I congratulate the Order for taking Cairo!
The Crusade is over now!
The Crusade is over now!
Originally Posted by Privateerkev:
Also, I see Alexandria is on the list. I am sure Methodios would be thrilled about that...
And the Caesar and better be prepared to get it over my dead body...Also, I see Alexandria is on the list. I am sure Methodios would be thrilled about that...
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun:
About the sack of Alexandria.. We shouldn't forget this! People are talking over the letter and Caesar but they have forgotten what Methodios did! So far he haven't heard any good reason why he did what he did. He shouldn't get away from punishment!
I never intended to get away from punishment... But I'll expect a fair jugdment and sanction... Machonios got off lightly by getting kicked out of House but keeping his lands... And that was for killing more than 6000 people.About the sack of Alexandria.. We shouldn't forget this! People are talking over the letter and Caesar but they have forgotten what Methodios did! So far he haven't heard any good reason why he did what he did. He shouldn't get away from punishment!
Anyway, our scouts should now have brought you reports of what truly happened at Alexandria and why I acted the way I did...
(OOC : battle report is up)
Senator Vringas, you can send a letter to Vissarionas, can you not? If he is unwilling to answer your questions by letter, than the Grandmaster cannot force him to answer your questions in person merely by request. To have him suffer such a disgrace would require, as the Megas Logothetes has pointed out, either a decree from the Magnaura, a decree from the Basileus, or a uniquely compelling and urgent reason.
As for the letter from the Caesar, I shall wait until he presents his defense before going into specifics.
Still, there is one thing I must say: We need disagreement. That is a requirement of all civilizations. Every idea that makes it's way into these chambers must be allowed to be opposed, with reason or what have you, else it becomes impossible to strike down the bad ideas and praise the good.
I should hope that there are none in this change who see such disagreements as indicative of treason. I will not bore with platitudes about how it instead indicative of loyalty and patriotism, but as I said it is indeed necessary for an empire to function.
As for the letter from the Caesar, I shall wait until he presents his defense before going into specifics.
Still, there is one thing I must say: We need disagreement. That is a requirement of all civilizations. Every idea that makes it's way into these chambers must be allowed to be opposed, with reason or what have you, else it becomes impossible to strike down the bad ideas and praise the good.
I should hope that there are none in this change who see such disagreements as indicative of treason. I will not bore with platitudes about how it instead indicative of loyalty and patriotism, but as I said it is indeed necessary for an empire to function.
Aleksander leans back in his chair and sighs, clearly bored. A knowing, smug smile crosses his face when the Caesar's treasonous letter is announced to the senate, and Aleksander shakes his head in mild disbelief.
Nodding to Armatos ek Naksou.
I believe you are correct Senator Armatos. However rather than write a letter I will simply frame the question here for official records in the Magnaura.
I, Senator Apionnas Vringas, would like a detailed answer as to the whereabouts, activities and relations Senator Vissarionas was conducting through the years 1106 to 1109.
I would also like to state that the Caesar is not helping matters by leaving these accusations go unanswered. Back room dealing leave substantial room for others to interpret the situation as it benefits them most.
I believe you are correct Senator Armatos. However rather than write a letter I will simply frame the question here for official records in the Magnaura.
I, Senator Apionnas Vringas, would like a detailed answer as to the whereabouts, activities and relations Senator Vissarionas was conducting through the years 1106 to 1109.
I would also like to state that the Caesar is not helping matters by leaving these accusations go unanswered. Back room dealing leave substantial room for others to interpret the situation as it benefits them most.
If the Caesar will not come, then so be it. We can judge him without his presence. I realise this may be somewhat illegal, but treason is worse, no? And that letter is damning.
Methodios, I have not forgotten Alexandria, and I understand that others have been let off rather lightly. The Caesar was never punished for neglecting the Order (and look what this has brought us to), Machonios got off lightly for the death of 6000 people, but that doesn't mean we can't start making the law work now. Once I have read the reports in detail, I will see what sanction is appropriate.
Methodios, I have not forgotten Alexandria, and I understand that others have been let off rather lightly. The Caesar was never punished for neglecting the Order (and look what this has brought us to), Machonios got off lightly for the death of 6000 people, but that doesn't mean we can't start making the law work now. Once I have read the reports in detail, I will see what sanction is appropriate.
Originally Posted by Privateerkev:
House Asteri:
Athens
Thessalonica
Corinth
Arta
Dyracchion
Belgrade
Bucharest
Rhodes
Zagreb
Sofia
Judging from the fact that Rhodes is also on this list I guess the Ceaser would like to dispose of me?House Asteri:
Athens
Thessalonica
Corinth
Arta
Dyracchion
Belgrade
Bucharest
Rhodes
Zagreb
Sofia
I'm going to have to reconsider my membership of the Komnendoukai while such a blatant idiot commands it.
You mean the Caesar didn't consult you when he decided to bargain your province away? Remarkable...
Hypatios, I would suggest all here reconsider their position vis-a-vis the Komnenodoukai, in particular its leader.
I have sent Pavlos a letter concerning the matter. I know he received it but he has yet to reply. If he doesn't reply, I will have no choice but to assume that he fully condones and approves of the Caesar's plan.
If he does condone the Caesar's plan, I strongly suggest that all members of that House search their souls and think about if they really want to be a part of an event that would rip this Empire apart.
If he does condone the Caesar's plan, I strongly suggest that all members of that House search their souls and think about if they really want to be a part of an event that would rip this Empire apart.
Nikolaos Aristenos walks into the Magnaura with a slightly off gait, and the smell of a tavern on a winters night on him. He walks to his new open seat, and unceremoniously plops himself down into it. He then uses his desk as an ottoman, leans back in his chair, takes a swig from a flask, pulls his hood down, and rests his eyes.
"I renounce my oath to my Brother, the caesar."
Andronikos' voice rang with barely contained fury, and his hand twitched at his side as he left the council chamber.
Andronikos' voice rang with barely contained fury, and his hand twitched at his side as he left the council chamber.
Efstathios smiles..
Good! At least someone in the Komnendoukai is man enough to do something! And it's Caesars own brother!
Good! At least someone in the Komnendoukai is man enough to do something! And it's Caesars own brother!
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