The Magnaura

[Privateerkev]

Strator Apionnas Vringas,

First off, I wish to welcome you back home. I've done some reading on the Saracens and I thought I recognized your clothing but I didn't feel right asking about it.

Second, to answer your question, I can see no good that could come from letting Catholic Crusader armies onto our lands. No good at all.

[Kagemusha]

So Makedonios Ksanthopoulos, if the Franks launch a crusade to the holy land, we should kill them in order to prevent them from reaching the Outremer?

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios turns to Ioannis Kantakouzinos,

No, we should stop them from entering Byzantine land period. I do not trust Catholic Crusader armies. They do not see us as Christians. Therefore, we will not be exempt from their depravity. Regardless of the Catholics Crusade's target, a Catholic Crusader Army should not be allowed within the Empire's borders. Ever.

[Kagemusha]

Makedonios Ksanthopoulos, that is not an answer. Do you really think that if the Western pope calls for a crusade and all the Western petty kingdoms join it, or even some of them, once reaching our land they will just turn around when we send messengers to them telling them to turn around?
Is it worth a war with other Christians, to try and stop them from fighting the Saracens?

[Privateerkev]

Catholic Crusade armies can not attack Catholic cities and armies. But we are not Catholic. So, if a Catholic Crusader army feels like sacking an Orthodox city, they can and the Pope will not say a word against it.

No, I simply see no reason for letting large numbers of Catholics wander around the Empire.

[Kagemusha]

Well then i must understand that as yes to my original question. Maybe it would be better to relocate the brotherhood in that case to the Western border of the Empire in order to "stop" the western Crusaders when they come and leave it to the other armies of Empire to claim back the outremer.

Ioannis takes his seat.

[Privateerkev]

Catholic Crusader armies are a threat to the whole empire. We are not protected from attack by the Pope like the Catholics are.

[deguerra]

Ioannis Kalameteros enters, dust from the road still on his coat from a hard ride. He walks over to the section of House Asteri, reads over what has been said thus far and rises to speak

Strators,

Without meaning disrespect, there has been too much beating around the bush. It is clear that what we all want is quite simple, and I believe by stating it outright we are making things less confusing.

We need land. The Empire is but a shadow of its past glory and that needs to be rectified, and the factions and it's members need lands to call their home. This is the main objective. Obviously, we cannot pass an edict to conquer the world, since this is unfeasible. We need some sort of restraint, in terms of distance and expense.

In that faculty, I believe edict 1.2, as amended by edict 1.4 to be perfect. It grants the Basielos the flexibility to expand, and seems to satisfy all the factions' more immediate need for land. If the Order is intent on Antioch, and are as capable of capturing it quickly and effectively as they claim, I see no reason for denying them.

Edict 1.1 is useless. I hereby swear allegiance and loyalty to Aleksios Komenus, pistos en Christō tō Theō Basileus Autokratōr Rōmaiōn, to serve and obey to my life's end so help me God. There is no need for a formal edict. This is a matter of personal preference, not one for the senate.

I would also like to formally endorse and second Edict 1.6, although I would prefer it changed to fit into the scope of Edict 1.2.

[AussieGiant]

The young officer finishes writing a small note and hands it to an official before again moving slightly into the chambers inner circle to make further comment.

My Lords I do not wish to cause any further reason for agitation here in this chamber.

It seems most are clear about not wanting to admit Crusading Catholic Armies into these lands, the real issue seems to be about how best refuse them admittance without cause further conflict.

I would state at this time that this issue may need an solid answer faster than most here think.

The Turks are already active and the wheels of war are turning towards inevitable conflict. I would choose who to fight and who not to fight before the choices are made for you all.

Perhaps the Basileus could request the Patriarch tone down his preaching’s and requests for assitance towards the Catholic Pope?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Patriarchal Representative:

My Lords, I bring word that His Eminence Nicholas III, Patriarch of Constantinople, has completed a Proclamation regarding his thoughts on the direction that the Byzantine Empire and the Orthodox faith should take in the coming years. I expect that it will make its way to the Magnaura shortly.

[BananaBob]

Nathanail ek Korinthou has seemed thoroughly disenfranchised by the discussion taking place, but his face grows more and more engaged in the debate around him as it appears to reaching some sort of resolution. He stands to speak, and says with a clam and steady voice:

Do not be mistaken, Ioannis Kantakouzinos, and think that the latins and their vulgar take on the word of the lord are our friends! They and their pope are no better then the turks that threaten our very borders as we speak! That very same pope does Byzantium grave insult by not recognizing us as the sucessors of the Roman Empire. Both the Catholics and Muslims are fanatic and dangerous foes that cannot be trusted.

We are the inheritors of the greatest civilization that mankind has seen. When the west fell, we remained strong. And, as harsh a reality as it may be, great Byzantium herself may be nothing more then a memory in merely decades if we do nothing to stop our present decline. I can fully support our need to reclaim as many provinces as possible to reestablish a foothold in the east. Whatever steps necessary must be taken to stop the ignorance of the east and west from plundering the empire, I will endorse.

Nathanail pauses and looks gravely to his fellow senators.

But we cannot forget that our culture, our great religion and the knowledge we have inherited are equally important to the well being of our empire. The Order of St.John was founded on this principle. Our purpose is to protect the birthplace of our lord from the grubby hands of barbarians, to preserve our great Orthodox faith -with military power if necessary- and to ensure that the places that mean so much to Byzantium and her people are safeguarded. I cannot see how the restoration of our empire cannot include the conquest of Outremer. It is more important to us then any material holding, as it our very identity that is at risk along side our borders.

He pauses, catching his breath.

Surely you all must see this?

[AussieGiant]

Raising his eyebrows at the mentioning of Muslim fanatics the young Saracen officer gazes around the chamber waiting for a response to Strator's proclamation.

[pevergreen]

Michail rises

"I see Nathanail, that we must conquer Outremer in time. There is no doubt that we must take Antioch and Jerusalem, but more pressing issues are here. Am I correct in my question that current edicts are still valid after this term? If we were to pass an edict now, relating to the capture of Outremer, will it stay in effect?

Come george, take this note."

Michail seats himself, and expecting glance fixating on a few members, then the doorway.

[flyd]

Markianos Ampelas nods at Apionnas Vringas.

Yes, very good then. I shall address your question. Anyone who attacks the Turks and Saracens is a friend of mine. If the westerners wish to fight them, I welcome them, with two reservations: firstly, I would be cautious about the strategic situation their conquest of the holy land would put the Empire in, assuming them to be friendly to us only as long as it benefits their interests. Secondly, I would prefer that the old Patriarchates be brought back under our Church, and not follow the apostate in Rome, though even that would be better than to have them in Muslim hands.

Ampelas sits down, still keeping an eye on Vringas. It is obvious he is somewhat uncomfortable with that man's... Saracenness? Saracenicty?