What, no Russia?

[Sheogorath]

So, having a look around, it seems that Russia is no longer a playable faction, but merely 'confirmed' as being in the game. Which means, if we look at previous TW games, that their units will consist solely of generic 'everyfaction' units, and pretty much their only purpose will be to get overrun by the player.
I, for one, find it rather upsetting that one of the most interesting powers of the period, indeed, later in the games historical time period, one of the GREAT powers, has been, essentially, cut.
I guess this means no Pavlovsk grenadiers, Cossacks, grand batteries, and shouts of 'UUURAH!' prior to launching a bayonet charge against the other sides curassiers.

I cant psychically read the minds of the dev's, so, please, what's the reason for not making Russia a playable faction?
While they werent a great colonizer, they were a major player in European events, the upstart power of the era with Peter the Great, the Greath Northern War signaling a shift in the balance of power of Eastern and Northern Europe, and the founding of the worlds largest modern, continuous, land empire.
Maybe they arent quite as well known as the British or Spanish Empires, but it was the Russians that marched into Paris, defeated Charles XII in a two-front war against two of the strongest powers of the time, first employed the concept of massed artillery fire, and were well known for their stubborn resolve when it came to fighting. Also, Cossacks. Really, who DOESNT want to see Cossacks? I know the Ottmans 'employed' them occasionally, but as far as I know, the Russian Empire was the first to really use them in the actual military on a large scale (aside from the Cossacks themselves, of course).

I find it rather amusing that, in the previous TW games that Russia was, while underdeveloped as a faction, at least made playable. Given that they had little impact on European affairs in the time periods (aside from being a minor speedbump to the Mongols on their way to central Europe), yet, once Russia is a major power, they are relegated to the role of minor faction.

'Tis a strange thing, I think.

[CBR]

CA has not released that much info on the campaign yet. I would be a bit surprised if Russia is not a playable faction.


CBR

[Sheogorath]

CA has not released that much info on the campaign yet. I would be a bit surprised if Russia is not a playable faction.


CBR

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic...Total-War.html

Specifically:

Nations:
Playable: between 9 - 12.
-Britain
-Prussia
-France
-Spain
-America: Become a founding father. Control the fate of the United States of America, from its revolution against the British to overcoming the challenges of a young independent nation.
-Ottoman Empire
-Austria
-Holland

Confirmed:
- Sweden
- Russia
- Venice
- Spain
- Poland-Lithuania.

Non-playable: approximatly 40.

Listing Russia under the 'confirmed' while Spain and Holland are listed as 'playable' is a bit odd, at least, to me. Which isnt to say that Spain and Holland werent important players, but in the time period of this game they generally stuck to economic dealings and let the big five knock each other around.

[CBR]

Well I'd say we are really still waiting for the juicy campaign stuff. We have not yet seen any pics of the campaign map. Maybe CA is not including Russia or maybe they are waiting to reveal more info at say Leipzig. To not include Russia would be very odd, so I am inclined to think it is more likely that it is just marketing.

But OK you never know with CA...


CBR

[Quintus.JC]

They're probably unlockable once you complete the campaign. I for one would find it a great injustice if Russia was made into a non-playable faction.

[rajpoot]

Either it has to be unlockable or you can look at the info in this way, that while the factitons on top are confirmed playable, the other are confirmed but nothing is there to say that they are not playable. Be optimistic. Russia will be playable. Having it otherwise is simple impossible!

[Sheogorath]

As CBR said (Madness!), this is CA, however. They might not've been able to think of a suitably silly fantasy unit for Russia >_>

Ah, well, one can always hope. I've always wanted to give the Russians a proper go at Constantinople. They tried so many times and never seemed to be able to make it.
That and Russian India just has an nice ring to it ;)

[fenir]

Noobs, no such things have been said.


Sheogorath, go drink more vodka, and start screaming like a little girl when CA confirm it.


NO FACTION IS UNPLAYABLE. from pas experiance, it takes no longer than 32 secs, to make a faction playable.

Grow up children, engage brain. CA has said none of this. As usual Sheogorath is on his "every game scream again", same bat time, same bat channel.

Sheogorath .............. Settle Petal.


NOTE: Actually in the time period, Great Britian Actually does have the best of everything. Leads in military technology. Industrial capacity. certianly the Richest nation on earth until 1950.


Sincerely

fenir

[Sheogorath]

Speaking of IG, im off to play it now, and incidently, ive been absoloutely kicking ass as russia. Anihilated the Austrians, and well into north africa and central europe.
IG is really one of those games where you need the patience to turtle early games otherwise youll get no where.
However the one thing i do really like about it as mentioned earlier is the AI and diplomacy - ALLIANCES ARE ACTUALLY KEPT! its strange to think of it! :P

As was said, diplomacy was one of the very few good things about IG.

I'm usually a turtler myself, but it takes waaaaaay to long to get to the 'fun' part of IG for me.

Noobs, no such things have been said.

Noob, read the thread.

Sheogorath, go drink more vodka,

I prefer IBC cream soda. Not much of a drinker, myself.

and start screaming like a little girl when CA confirm it.

Confirm what? ETW has gone gold? I think everybody here with scream with varying degrees of girlishness when that happens.

NO FACTION IS UNPLAYABLE. from pas experiance, it takes no longer than 32 secs, to make a faction playable.

Please do read the topic.

Grow up children, engage brain. CA has said none of this.

I havent said CA has said anything. If you would, carefully, read the topic, I am quite clear that what I am saying is speculation. Perhaps it would be a good idea to reflect on the merits of reading comprehension prior to making personal attacks.

As usual Sheogorath is on his "every game scream again", same bat time, same bat channel.

Drow, drow, drow your canoe
The stream provides flotation
Hysterically, hysterically, hysterically, hysterically
Existence is hallucination.

Sheogorath .............. Settle Petal.

And if I refuse?

NOTE: Actually in the time period, Great Britian Actually does have the best of everything.

Hmmmm, nope.

Leads in military technology.

Nope. Both Spain and France built better and bigger ships than Britain. The Prussians made better guns and the Austrians built the best cannons in Europe. Poland and France had superior cavalry. British strength lay in the sheer size of the Royal Navy.

Industrial capacity

I dont think so, Tim. Most of the great powers had roughly equal 'industrial capacity' until the 1830's/40's when the second industrial revolution got into swing. The British certainly had more advanced textile industries, however. But Prussia, for example, had a far more developed arms industry.

certianly the Richest nation on earth until 1950.

Wrong.
In the early 1800's France had the largest GDP in Europe (based on estimates, of course.), and China had far more money than any European nation until the Opium wars.
The British GDP wasnt the largest in the world unitl the 1870's, and was surpassed by the US shortly after WWI.

[pevergreen]

Keep it civilised gentlmen.

Just be thankful there isnt a Mod here yet.

Fenir, I would seriously consider rereading ever post before you made it, if I was you. I am hoping this once off abusive post is just that. A once off.

[Martok]

Indeed. Even if you can't be friendly, you still need to at least be polite. Calling people "noobs" & "children" and telling them to grow up is not polite or gentlemanly behavior. But I digress.


As to whether or not Russia will be playable, I hope they will be. As others have pointed out, the Russians were becoming a major power during that period, and were dominated by notable personages such as Peter and Catherine the Great.

Yes, I realize that this is no guarantee that CA will actually include the Russian Empire as a playable faction, but I remain (cautiously) optimistic.

[Sheogorath]

Keep it civilised gentlmen.

Just be thankful there isnt a Mod here yet.

Fenir, I would seriously consider rereading ever post before you made it, if I was you. I am hoping this once off abusive post is just that. A once off.

Its a common theme. I'm a bit of a russophile, he's an anglophile. We've had some lovely debates in the past, as you might've guessed :P

EDIT:
Curses! I'll get you Martok!

My main concern, at this point, is mostly that Russia will get be done in such a half-assed way that it wont be worth bothering.

[Jolt]

NOTE: Actually in the time period, Great Britian Actually does have the best of everything. Leads in military technology. Industrial capacity. certianly the Richest nation on earth until 1950.


Sincerely

fenir

History class. Go.

The "leading nation in military/industry/wealth" managed to lose to a backward colony, with the help of some highly debted France.

In the Napoleonic Wars, Britain had to scout around Europe and had to count on the partizan and resistence movements in Portugal & Spain, to slow down the French, as well as on French Eastern front to actually begin doing any kind of damage. If France wasn't busy with Russia, Austria & co. I doubt they'd be able to achieve anything. France not only far surpassed Britain in population and agricultural output (necessary to maintaining an army) but also had indeed the most powerful army by that time.

That period was followed by some decades of British hegemony, which came to an end as the German unified and industrialized. This happened because much of the British Industry was obsolete with new inventions, and lead to a much greater improvement in productivity, not by Germany by also by the USA.

Then in World War 1, the "leading nation in military/industry/wealth" couldn't manage,a long with it's French allies, to steadfastly win a war against a European country, who even fought on both the East and the West. It even had to ration food. Once again, I don't see where the great advances military technology is, nor where it's great industral capacity is.

After the said war was over, Great Britain had lost a very great deal of the market shares it had in a plethora of different areas, and had to borrow much money from America to rebuild back it's war-focused economy, becoming much more dependent on other economies.

Interbellum and the Great Depression showed exactly the dependency Great Britain had on the World economy as it was one of the winning major powers to be hit hard in unemployment and lack of purchasing power (The so-called wealth).

World War II came once again to show the superior military might of the United Kingdom, with the inability to protect it's main ally, and then to be kept afloat thanks to great American help. Germans would also fall to an Eastern front, as well as the might of the USA once again.

In the last 5 years of your deadline. I'm not really sure how you can even say that the UK is the richest nation by that time.

[CBR]

The GNP statistics I know of show UK to surpass France in the 1830's or so, USA became the largest Western economy in 1870-80's and Germany the largest European economy just before the start of WW1. UK had the highest GNP per capita until early 1900's when USA became the leader.


CBR

[fenir]

Sheogorath,

If you can't recognise tongue in cheeky by now, what am i to do with you.


As for all this other bullocks.

Jolt you have no idea.

GDP, time you looked more closely, france included it's colonies, britian didn't....

I had a whole post up, but i can't be bothered.

Sincerely

fenir

[Sheogorath]

Tongue in cheek, gotcha ;)

[Fenir doesnt feel like it tonight. Oh well :(]

EDIT:
Or perhaps not. Ah, well.

[Jolt]

Sheogorath,

If you can't recognise tongue in cheeky by now, what am i to do with you.


As for all this other bullocks.

Jolt you have no idea.

GDP, time you looked more closely, france included it's colonies, britian didn't....

I had a whole post up, but i can't be bothered.

Sincerely

fenir

I'd honestly love to see your post. Even more, I'd love to see how Britain is the world richest nation while it was rationing it's own food products.

[darrin42]

Yeah, I Agree. Russia was a Very Interesting Power at the time of the Games Set(paticularly towards its End) And during the 12th Century they were not ect. I to find it a tad strange lol. Are you certain they shall not be playable? Fear not Anyways, Im sure you can tweek the game, to make them playable..though it will probs Clone Units, As you say. Oh Well...You cant complain really. IRELAND has never been properly featured in A main total War game(excluding Viking Invasion, And Kingdoms) So ...:( Im going to have to play as the red coats just to free Ireland