Random thought: Forgiveness

[Geoffrey S]

Nothing is wrong with forgiveness. It does however imply two sides - not only that someone forgives, but also that someone asks for it to be given. The latter is the problem. Sure, someone may ask to be forgiven, but do they really mean it? At that point it becomes a matter of personal judgement, which may as with all mortal things be flawed.

In my opinion the decision doesn't matter, as long as the motivation behind it is true. No self-deception. Anyway, religious people may be assured that while we can hold temporary judgement on a personal basis, ultimate judgement won't be given by us anyway. We just make do best we can with the decisions we make.

[LittleGrizzly]

Holding grudges has caused mass slaughter all over Europe, while i would say taken down to the personal level it can help in some circumstances (though mostly its better to forgive and forget) on an international level grudges should hold no place!

Except in the football, especially against Germany!

[PBI]

Well, that's the point of football really isn't it, so that we can harbour all our narrow-minded national hatreds and grudges and exact vengeance in a satisfying way without having to slaughter millions of each other's citizens. So OK, grudges allowed in football (and Eurovision).

[Fragony]

Holding grudges has caused mass slaughter all over Europe, while i would say taken down to the personal level it can help in some circumstances (though mostly its better to forgive and forget) on an international level grudges should hold no place!

One could argue that the english/french grudge is what keeps them in check when dealing with eachother, both prefer to keep meddling with eachother to a minimum making it less likely future hostility's will occur. A permanent state of hostility isn't the same thing as a permanent state of war.

As for football, Germany is our mortal enemy but we are jost poking fun at eachother, I am pretty sure the Germans enjoy the rivalry just as much as we do. The dutch hold no grudge against the germans for what happened in WW2, that probably makes us the most dangerous people in the world.

[Husar]

The dutch hold no grudge against the germans for what happened in WW2, that probably makes us the most dangerous people in the world.

Someone invade them already!

[Fragony]

Someone invade them already!

What I mean by that is that is that if we don't care what happens to us we certainly won't care for what happens to others. And if have to invade us do leave the shovel at home please these hole's in the beach are dangerous.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Nothing is wrong with forgiveness. It does however imply two sides - not only that someone forgives, but also that someone asks for it to be given. The latter is the problem. Sure, someone may ask to be forgiven, but do they really mean it? At that point it becomes a matter of personal judgement, which may as with all mortal things be flawed.

In my opinion the decision doesn't matter, as long as the motivation behind it is true. No self-deception. Anyway, religious people may be assured that while we can hold temporary judgement on a personal basis, ultimate judgement won't be given by us anyway. We just make do best we can with the decisions we make.

I think you're confusing forgiveness and pardon. Forgiveness is not conditional.

[macsen rufus]

Forgiveness is not conditional

This time you beat me to it I was going to add that like love it is unconditional, or it isn't what it claims to be.

And I've also considered a bit further - where forgiveness is expressly conveyed to the offender, it can, on occasion, have such an emotional power as to induce far greater remorse and repentance than the punishment received (ie in criminal proceedings). In that respect it can also be transformative for offenders, but this is not and should not be seen as a primary focus. Then we start straying into restorative justice programmes, which is probably a whole new thread.....

[Kagemusha]

Dont they say that: forgive, but dont forget.

[rotorgun]

I found it interesting that many of us, including myself think that forgiveness is solely a christian tenet. This is not really the case it seems. (see link).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness

According to the facts, forgiveness is also a practice of Bhuddism, Islam, Hinduism, and Judaism as well. Does anyone know about Shintoism? Isn't that an offshoot of Bhuddism?

As for my personal view, I try to follow the teachings of Christ. That I miserably fail to attain them at times is true, but having some sort of moral guidline has often led to some surprising results in my relationships. There is nothing like telling one's arch enemy that you forgive him or her, and that you'll be praying for them. It completely blows some folks away sometimes. It's like pulling the rug out from under their anger. Sometimes they will even get a bit more angry at first, but usually leaves them stupified as to how to respond. My favorite example of Christ's attitude toward forgiveness is from his sermon on the mount.

First take the beam out of your own eye, then you'll know how to remove the mote from your nieghbor's (paraphrasing)