View Poll Results: What is more important to you: Foreign or Domestic policy?

Voters
18. This poll is closed
  • Foreign Policy (war, alliances, tariffs, etc)

    5 27.78%
  • Domestic Policy (taxes, constitutional adherance, poverty, etc)

    13 72.22%
  • Gah!

    0 0%
  • Some other choice

    0 0%
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Thread: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

  1. #2041
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    How in hell can you guys let your Government get away with crap like this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    About one-third of the absentee ballot applications received at the Hamilton
    County Board of Elections have been ruled invalid because Republican Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign printed a version of the form with an extra, unneeded box on it.
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    In a narrow interpretation of Ohio law, Democratic Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner says many of the McCain forms have not been completed properly. If the box stating the person is an eligible elector -- or qualified voter – is not checked, Brunner said, the application is no good.

    Even though the box is unneeded, by not checking it voters are essentially admitting they’re not eligible, Brunner said.

    “I have not seen a ruling that indirectly impacts voters to the enormity of this since I’ve been here,’’ Hamilton County Board of Elections Deputy Director John Williams said of his nearly five-year tenure at the board.

    More than 750 absentee ballot requests in Hamilton County have been invalidated because of Brunner’s ruling, Williams said.

    Absentee voting begins in 19 days, or on Sept. 30.

    If a registered Ohio voter’s application is rejected, Brunner said, “We said you have to notify them within 48 hours and we also suggest that (Board of Elections) send them a new application.”

    That means county Boards of Election must contact tens of thousands of voters and ask them to fill out a new, valid form in time to vote for the Nov. 4 election.
    The McCain campaign says it mailed out about 1 million of the faulty forms.

    "The form contains the necessary requirements and has been accepted in past elections, so this election should be no different,’’ Jon Seaton, McCain’s regional campaign manager,’ said today. "Qualified voters who request absentee ballots should receive them.’’

    “If I were a voter, I wouldn’t be very happy,” Brunner said. “I’m stuck with the law. You shouldn’t have to check a box.”

    Brunner insists she would have ruled the same way if the absentee ballot applications were printed by Sen. Barack Obama’s Democratic campaign for president.

    Regardless, her ruling is likely to be challenged in court.

    Williams said he has asked a county prosecutor how to proceed. He said state law does not require a separate box on a form, only a printed statement that the voter is a qualified elector.

    “This has been a huge wrench in our operation,’’ Williams said.

    “There’s an enormous time and cost involved,’’ Williams said. “If that box was not there, but a four-leaf clover was there, what do you do with that? What if it was a circle that was next to that? What if it was an asterisk? Effectively what she is saying is it doesn’t need to be there, but if it’s there you need to check it.”

    Letters will be sent out to everyone whose absentee applications were rejected, with instructions on how to fill out the form properly. Williams wondered aloud what part of the faulty form should be returned to avoid new confusion, and not disenfranchise voters.

    Brunner was elected in 2006 on a campaign encouraging fewer restrictions on voters and more improvements in the election process to make the system easier and more transparent following two presidential elections in which Ohio was riddled with problems involving punch-card ballots, touchscreen machines, long lines and registration snafus.

    Brunner said state law does not require one standardized form to apply for an absentee ballot. While the Secretary of State prints its own application, the law says it need not be a particular form. A voter can merely send a letter with personal information that identifies him or her as a qualified elector to receive an absentee ballot, Brunner said.

    Some county Boards of Election have asked Brunner why they should pay to fix the application error. “The law is clear. The problem is with McCain’s form,’’ she said.
    But Brunner said she does not have the authority to order any campaign to reimburse counties for the new mailing costs to fix the problem.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  2. #2042
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Whatever your position, you have to admit that the Bush administration is taking all of its foreign policy moves from Obama.

    One take:

    I was among many people who ridiculed the Obama proposal at the time, on the grounds that a) no nation violates the territorial integrity of an ally, even if that ally is problematic, and b) Obama’s bellicosity seemed entirely unbelievable, given that he spoke in the wake of his remarks about meeting with the leaders of the world’s worst regimes “without preconditions.” On the latter point, he was and remains wrong and foolish.

    On the former point, though, he was, apparently, precognitive, and may be due an apology.

    Another:

    Will McCain now condemn the Bush administration's decision to go into Pakistan? Or was this idea only naive ten months ago? Was it only naive because it came from Obama? The Obama campaign should be making a much bigger deal about this.

    Then again, this has to do with issue, and not with lipstick or personalities, so I expect it will die unnoticed. Much the same way the change of strategy in Iraq ("time horizons," anyone?) went more or less under the radar.
    Last edited by Lemur; 09-12-2008 at 22:24.

  3. #2043

    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    @CA: It looks to me like the the McCain campaign accidentaly sent out faulty applications. Or else brunner is just thinking it's payback time, which wouldn't be cool. We'll see I guess.

  4. #2044

    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    GIBSON: Do you agree with the Bush doctrine?
    PALIN: In what respect, Charlie?
    GIBSON: The Bush -- well, what do you -- what do you interpret it to be?
    PALIN: His world view.
    GIBSON: No, the Bush doctrine, enunciated September 2002, before the Iraq war.
    PALIN: I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism, terrorists who are hell bent on destroying our nation. There have been blunders along the way, though. There have been mistakes made. And with new leadership, and that's the beauty of American elections, of course, and democracy, is with new leadership comes opportunity to do things better.
    GIBSON: The Bush doctrine, as I understand it, is that we have the right of anticipatory self-defense, that we have the right to a preemptive strike against any other country that we think is going to attack us. Do you agree with that?
    PALIN: Charlie, if there is legitimate and enough intelligence that tells us that a strike is imminent against American people, we have every right to defend our country. In fact, the president has the obligation, the duty to defend.
    For those who haven't watched the palin interview...

  5. #2045
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    For those who haven't watched the palin interview...
    former beauty pageant contestant, you say?
    Last edited by Big_John; 09-12-2008 at 19:22.
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  6. #2046
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  7. #2047

    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Does anyone find it funny that Palin gave a speech to the troops about bringing victory in Iraq when the soldier who was running the presidents "lipstick on a pig" plan for Iraq said that there couldn't be a victory in Iraq .

  8. #2048
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    @CA: It looks to me like the the McCain campaign accidentaly sent out faulty applications. Or else brunner is just thinking it's payback time, which wouldn't be cool. We'll see I guess.
    I doubt it was an accident... I also doubt Obama won't do something similar.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  9. #2049

    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    I doubt it was an accident... I also doubt Obama won't do something similar.
    Well, if he sent it out to his own supporters I'm pretty sure it was an accident...

  10. #2050
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Has anyone seen the new Messiah ad?
    http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/still_ad/

    There might be a reason why Senator McCain isn't as computer saavy as the Messiah believes he should be...
    http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...JlNjNjNjkxZmM=

    Maybe the Messiah should lay hands on him and heal him so he can do all the things that the Obama and Biden ticket think one needs to do to be president.

    They really should do better research...
    RIP Tosa

  11. #2051
    Formerly: SwedishFish Member KarlXII's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Hahahahah.

    "Get tough" image my foot. I'm not surprised, though, Obama's been dealing with attacks since e announced his running, but hey, as long as it's not Palin or McCain, continue making fun of him, his race, skin color, supposed religion etc
    HOW ABOUT 'DEM VIKINGS
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  12. #2052
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishFish View Post
    Hahahahah.

    "Get tough" image my foot. I'm not surprised, though, Obama's been dealing with attacks since e announced his running, but hey, as long as it's not Palin or McCain, continue making fun of him, his race, skin color, supposed religion etc
    I will. The difference is I'm just some dork on a computer game website, these guys are suppose to be running a "new campaign, removed from the politics as usual", right? Maybe when Obama goes to his nest campaign stop, he can challenge a parapelegic to a slam dunk contest.
    RIP Tosa

  13. #2053
    Formerly: SwedishFish Member KarlXII's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave View Post
    I will. The difference is I'm just some dork on a computer game website, these guys are suppose to be running a "new campaign, removed from the politics as usual", right? Maybe when Obama goes to his nest campaign stop, he can challenge a parapelegic to a slam dunk contest.
    Well Dave, you ought to get front row tickets. You may be able to see the balls Obama has!
    HOW ABOUT 'DEM VIKINGS
    -Martok

  14. #2054
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    New poll is up. Which is more important to you, whether as a US voter, or interested non-US observer: foreign policy (relations among nations, war-decisions, tariff and trade decisions, etc.) or domestic policy (abortion, guns, adherence to the constitution, taxes, balanced budgets, etc.)?

    Votes are anonymous this time.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  15. #2055
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Poll does not appear to be open for business, Kukri.

    So DevDave, SwedFish, I have a question for the both of you. Let's say the other guy wins. The one you don't like. What sort of consequences do you think we'll see? How exactly will he go about destroying America? And how will we know that America is being destroyed?

  16. #2056
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Sorry, must have messed up at first. We have one vote - telling me it's working at the moment.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  17. #2057
    Formerly: SwedishFish Member KarlXII's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    McCain's not going to destroy America. Obama's not going to destroy America.

    If McCain were to win, I forsee a more militaristic involvement in the Middle East. Iran, possibly Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan. I see a increasingly low reputation, and a similarly high increase in Islamic extremism in the Arab nations.

    If Obama were to win, I forsee a more isolationist America. One that will respond to threats when actually in true danger. I see a closer move to Socialism, not to the point of Communism, however. A higher reputation in the world due to Obama's international campaigning, but a more volatile Middle East, and a possible rise in Islamic extremism.
    HOW ABOUT 'DEM VIKINGS
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  18. #2058
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    It says I already voted on this poll.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  19. #2059
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Poll does not appear to be open for business, Kukri.

    So DevDave, SwedFish, I have a question for the both of you. Let's say the other guy wins. The one you don't like. What sort of consequences do you think we'll see? How exactly will he go about destroying America? And how will we know that America is being destroyed?
    When President Messiah raises the taxes on the "wealthy" as an attempt to redistribute the wealth, the wealthy will do what people who are smart with money do; they'll keep their money. Not only that, they'll lay off workers. I never got a job from a poor man, as I say. When the Messiah goes after the evil oil companies and their "windfall profits" he'll destroy everyone's 401 k's, mutual funds, etc. What the unwshed out there don't realise is that a LOT of their retirement is dependent on the "evil oil companies". The next thing that will happen is you won't be able to criticize the Messiah unless you want to be branded a RACIST. You won't be able to call Obama a Chimp like you guys have done to Bush for the past 7 years you know, so you can throw out political satire as well. So anytime Obama enacts some new Marxist social program, who will be able to criticise it? Take a look at Europe in its nuetured state when it comes to its racial issues or the ability to point out the obvious. He will gut the military or use it for what it should not be used for, ala Bill Clinton. With a democrat legislative branch and executive branch, we'll be a balless as Europe by the end of his first term. So there you go, pick it all apart, I don't care. Would you like to know why?

    Because he's not going to win. Simple as that. No matter how many around the world bow and worship at his alter, we are not going to elect him. This country's citizens, even the really dumb ones out there that want the government to "take care of them" will not vote for him when they are in the voting booth. Thats where the message of "change" will die. Because even the most ignorant of the citizens in this country know when they see con man. Right now, your hearing many Americans coming out saying they're going to vote for Obama, they're excited that he's running, and the media has put him on a pedistal. But in the privacy of that booth, everything changes.

    So I'm going to sit back for a couple of hours and enjoy the sniping and picking apart of this post. Maybe I'll get some more of the "you're a Nazi" from some of you, but all I can do is keep my eating grim beaming at the knowledge that Obama lost the day he said his first "Uhhh, ummmm, change"...
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 09-13-2008 at 08:41. Reason: Language
    RIP Tosa

  20. #2060
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    I would prefer a President whose actions indicate a 'smaller foreign policy'. I think that, were McCain to win, we would have a more reasonable move towards securing Afghanistan and Pakistan. I don't believe that McCain would go out of his way to deliberately insult anyone, except Russia.

    Obama, for all his high talk, would move to a smaller military, but a larger, more helpful, foreign policy.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  21. #2061
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave View Post
    So there you go, pick it all apart, I don't care.
    Is this the part where you take your marbles and go home?

  22. #2062
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Is this the part where you take your marbles and go home?
    No, you treat my marbles just fine.

    Lemur, please critique my thoughts, because I know that you know exactly what I'm talking about when you're in the booth all by your lonesome and the vote is cast...
    RIP Tosa

  23. #2063
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Maybe tomorrow, lover, if I have time before or after my boy's birthday party. (I have to get in some good living before Obama destroys America.)

  24. #2064
    Prince of Maldonia Member Toby and Kiki Champion, Goo Slasher Champion, Frogger Champion woad&fangs's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    McCain as president.

    Foreign policy will be similar to the way things have been the last 8 years. Oil prices will continue to rise but whoever gets the presidency after him(Palin or Hillary) will get to take credit credit for a fall in oil prices once the oil from offshore drilling becomes available. Troops will be returned home from Iraq within 2 years. McCain will be considered a hero who brought "peace with honor" to the conflict. Some of the troops will be redeployed to Afghanistan which will become more stable by the end of his term. 1 of two things will happen with the economy. Either inflation and debt will rise astronomically because McCain lowers taxes while failing to slash pork or he will somehow manage to drastically reduce the amount of pork in the budget and America will be back to a solid economy.

    Obama as president

    Foreign relations will improve with almost all countries but Russia will become more powerful than if McCain was president. Oil prices will continue to climb but will be offset by the growth of alternative energy sources in Obama's second term(). Troops will be returned home from Iraq within 18 months. Obama will be called a surrender monkey and other similar terms by the right. Troops will be redeployed to Afghanistan just like under McCain. Obama will pay for lowering taxes by repealing Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy. Obama will end tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas. Either the budget will be significantly more balanced(I don't think anyone can fix Bush's mess in one term) or Socialized Healthcare will be introduced. I don't think he can do both. Overall we'll look more like europe.

    The biggest reason why I like Obama is that he is very good at surrounding himself with skilled people. He also listens to the opinions of people regardless of whether or not he agrees with them. I think this is what will help the country best in the long run.

    McCain on the other hand pretty much has been winging it this entire election and I expect that will be his style if he wins the presidency. Of course, he is very good at winging it.

    As for the VPs

    Biden will be a mediocre liberal who will provide satirists with plenty of material.

    Palin is 4 more years of Bush. I don't think anyone wants 4 more years of Bush.
    Last edited by woad&fangs; 09-13-2008 at 05:27.
    Why did the chicken cross the road?

    So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road,
    but also with fear, for whom among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely
    chicken's dominion maintained. ~Machiavelli

  25. #2065
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Maybe tomorrow, lover, if I have time before or after my boy's birthday party. (I have to get in some good living before Obama destroys America.)
    Good point, because when the Messiah comes to town the only "Change" you're going to see is a few coins left in your pocket after he's raped you out of the money you EARNED to give to someone who hasn't EARNED YOUR money. But its "neighborly" as he says...
    RIP Tosa

  26. #2066

    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave View Post
    Has anyone seen the new Messiah ad?
    http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/still_ad/

    There might be a reason why Senator McCain isn't as computer saavy as the Messiah believes he should be...
    http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...JlNjNjNjkxZmM=

    Maybe the Messiah should lay hands on him and heal him so he can do all the things that the Obama and Biden ticket think one needs to do to be president.

    They really should do better research...
    It's a pretty dumb ad, but I don't think you'd be correct in saying that McCain can't type.

    Q: Do you use a blackberry or email?

    Mr. McCain: No

    Mark Salter: He uses a BlackBerry, just ours.

    Mr. McCain: I use the Blackberry, but I don’t e-mail, I’ve never felt the particular need to e-mail. I read e-mails all the time, but the communications that I have with my friends and staff are oral and done with my cell phone. I have the luxury of being in contact with them literally all the time. We now have a phone on the plane that is usable on the plane, so I just never really felt a need to do it.



    Quote Originally Posted by woad&fangs
    Oil prices will continue to rise but whoever gets the presidency after him(Palin or Hillary) will get to take credit credit for a fall in oil prices once the oil from offshore drilling becomes available.
    You mean whoever is president in 2030

  27. #2067
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by makaikhaan View Post
    It says I already voted on this poll.
    same here
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  28. #2068
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    more dangerously biased and destructive-to-the-american-way-of-life daily show goodness for any who missed it a couple weeks back.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlJ3-KPDkFo
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  29. #2069
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    You mean whoever is president in 2030
    You mean the payout would be far in the future and we wouldn't get instant gratification? Well we'd better just completely forget about it, because everyone knows planning for the future is stupid and lame.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  30. #2070
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by makaikhaan View Post
    It says I already voted on this poll.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Poll does not appear to be open for business, Kukri.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big_John View Post
    same here
    Kukri, we are going to have to get that Diebold engineer back in.

    Just in case he asks, you guys aren't Floridian Democrats, by any chance?


    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

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