U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

So, neither you nor EMFM have read obama's plan. Same reply to you as I gave to him.

When was this?

[CountArach]

Face it Xiahou, the only way the lefties in our backroom would respect her is if she had gutted her Baby a few second before he was born like she would an Alaskan salmon. I guess I would be upset too if the top guy on my ticket that I was supporting had less experience than the bottom ticket of the opposition!!!

Wow... you really think she has more experience than Obama?

Some leftist websites are accussing Palin of not actually having her last child. Apparently they think it was her daughter's...

This goes to show that morons can be found on both sides of the aisle.

There... I said it.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Here is a great article comparing Obama to Palin in terms of their experience. We can feel even better knowing that our interesting prodigy is going to be in the #2 slot (which can stand a bit more "on the job" training) while yours will be in the drivers seat from day 1.

Before anyone might complain about this arguments bias (which is has, as the authore admits 5 paragraphs down), I must say that the question was asked "do we really feel that Palin is more experienced than Obama?". Here is your answer.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sarah Palin vs. Barack Obama
By Gerard Baker
Link

Democrats, between sniggers of derision and snorts of disgust, contend that Sarah Palin, John McCain's vice-presidential pick is ridiculously unqualified to be president.

It's a reasonable objection on its face except for this small objection: it surely needs to be weighed against the Democrats' claim that their own candidate for president is self-evidently ready to assume the role of most powerful person on the planet.

At first blush, here's what we know about the relative experience of the two candidates. Both are in their mid-forties and have held statewide elective office for less than four years. Both have admitted to taking illegal drugs in their youth.

So much for the similarities. How about the differences?

Political experience

Obama: Worked his way to the top by cultivating, pandering to and stroking the most powerful interest groups in the all-pervasive Chicago political machine, ensuring his views were aligned with the power brokers there.

Palin: Worked her way to the top by challenging, attacking and actively undermining the Republican party establishment in her native Alaska. She ran against incumbent Republicans as a candidate willing and able to clean the Augean Stables of her state's government.

Political Biography

Obama: A classic, if unusually talented, greasy-pole climber. Held a succession of jobs that constitute the standard route to the top in his party's internal politics: "community organizer", law professor, state senator.

Palin:A woman with a wide range of interests in a well-variegated life. Held a succession of jobs - sports journalist, commercial fisherwoman, state oil and gas commissioner, before entering local politics. A resume that suggests something other than burning political ambition from the cradle but rather the sort of experience that enables her to understand the concerns of most Americans..


Political history

Obama: Elected to statewide office only after a disastrous first run for a congressional seat and after his Republican opponent was exposed in a sexual scandal. Won seat eventually in contest against a candidate who didn't even live in the state.


Palin: Elected to statewide office by challenging a long-serving Republican incumbent governor despite intense opposition from the party.


Appeal

Obama: A very attractive speaker whose celebrity has been compared to that of Britney Spears and who sends thrills up Chris Matthews' leg

Palin: A very attractive woman, much better-looking than Britney Spears who speaks rather well too. She sends thrills up the leg of Rush Limbaugh (and me).

Executive experience

Obama: Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of his campaign staff and a vast crowd of traveling journalists

Palin:Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of 500,000 people in her state, and that impact crucial issues of national economic interest such as the supply and cost of energy to the United States.

Religious influences

Obama: Regards people who "cling" to religion and guns as "bitter" . Spent 20 years being mentored and led spiritually by a man who proclaimed "God damn America" from his pulpit. Mysteriously, this mentor completely disappeared from public sight about four months ago.

Palin: Head of her high school Fellowship of Christian Athletes and for many years a member of the Assemblies of God congregation whose preachers have never been known to accuse the United States of deliberately spreading the AIDS virus. They remain in full public sight and can be seen every Sunday in churches across Alaska. A proud gun owner who has been known to cling only to the carcasses of dead caribou felled by her own aim.


Record of bipartisan achievement

Obama: Speaks movingly of the bipartisanship needed to end the destructive politics of "Red America" and "Blue America", but votes in the Senate as a down-the-line Democrat, with one of the most liberal voting records in congress.

Palin: Ridiculed by liberals such as John Kerry as a crazed, barely human, Dick Cheney-type conservative but worked wit Democrats in the state legislature to secure landmark anti-corruption legislation.

Former state Rep. Ethan Berkowitz - a Democrat - said. "Gov. Palin has made her name fighting corruption within her own party, and I was honored when she stepped across party lines and asked me to co-author her ethics white paper."


On Human Life

Obama: Devoutly pro-choice. Voted against a bill in the Illinois state senate that would have required doctors to save the lives of babies who survived abortion procedures. The implication of this position is that babies born prematurely during abortions would be left alone, unnourished and unmedicated, until they died.

Palin: Devoutly pro-life. Exercised the choice proclaimed by liberals to bring to full term a baby that had been diagnosed in utero with Down Syndrome.

Now it's true there are other crucial differences. Sen Obama has appeared on Meet The Press every other week for the last four years. He has been the subject of hundreds of adoring articles in papers and newsweeklies and TV shows and has written two Emmy-award winning books.

Gov Palin has never appeared on Meet the Press, never been on the cover of Newsweek. She presumably feels that, as a mother of five children married to a snowmobile champion, who also happens to be the first woman and the youngest person ever to be elected governor of her state, she has not really done enough yet to merit an autobiography.

Then again, I'm willing to bet that if she had authored The Grapes of Wrath, sung like Edith Piaf and composed La Traviata , she still wouldn't have won an Emmy.

Fortunately, it will be up to the American people and not their self-appointed leaders in Hollywood and New York to determine who really has the better experience to be president.

[CountArach]

LMAO. If I wanted Republican talking points I would have gone to the Republican site myself...

[Devastatin Dave]

Wow... you really think she has more experience than Obama?

Yes I do. She's been to Iraq and stayed there more than Obama, she has a history of working with other political parties, which Obama has none, and she has taken on the corruption within her party which Obama never has. She's the real "change" that Washington needs. Obama has basically hypnotised the masses in to believing that he's more than just a good teleprompter reader. Did you hear her acceptance speech with no teleprompter? When Obama speaks without guidance, he saounds like George Bush after a stroke. Umm, uhhh, mmmm... I mean, Come on guys...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJS...eature=related

(collective farming, where have we heard this before!!!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Qx...eature=related

[CountArach]

Palin on Iraq - this is why she would be a dangerous CiC.

Alaska Business Monthly: We've lost a lot of Alaska's military members to the war in Iraq. How do you feel about sending more troops into battle, as President Bush is suggesting?

Palin: I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq. I heard on the news about the new deployments, and while I support our president, Condoleezza Rice and the administration, I want to know that we have an exit plan in place; I want assurances that we are doing all we can to keep our troops safe. Every life lost is such a tragedy. I am very, very proud of the troops we have in Alaska, those fighting overseas for our freedoms, and the families here who are making so many sacrifices.

Anyway, that's all from me for today. Bloody timezones...

[Ronin]

I´ll make a prediction right now....if the republicans win we´re gonna be treated for a long "banging in the white house" MIL* PRON series.....

I might just convince myself that republicans are the right choice!

[Devastatin Dave]

Not only this, but this guy is NOT the racial uniter messiah that all the libs want us to believe he is..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI77...eature=related
Can you imagine, if this guy gets elected, how are we as citizens going criticise him at all without being labeled racist. This guy is not good for our country.

[Ronin]

Slick for PRESIDENT!!!

[Lemur]

Yes, DevDave, anyone who isn't instantly thrilled at Palin is a godless Communist. And any Republicans who question the choice are corrupticrats who can't appreciate a good thing.

Most Republicans have never met Sarah Palin and are processing the news of her selection as VP with the stunned-but-well-meaning emotions you might feel toward an acquaintance who just came out of the closet. Those given to caution when discussing such things at a brunch with journalists put a hopeful, might-be-a-stroke-of-genius spin on their astonishment. Those less inhibited--who are also better people--generally see the pick as irresponsible and politically motivated (and not in a good way). No one believes Palin was fully vetted. And no one has any idea how this will play out.

[KukriKhan]

Yes, DevDave, anyone who isn't instantly thrilled at Pain is a godless Communist. And any Republicans who question the choice are corrupticrats who can't appreciate a good thing.

Most Republicans have never met Sarah Palin and are processing the news of her selection as VP with the stunned-but-well-meaning emotions you might feel toward an acquaintance who just came out of the closet. Those given to caution when discussing such things at a brunch with journalists put a hopeful, might-be-a-stroke-of-genius spin on their astonishment. Those less inhibited--who are also better people--generally see the pick as irresponsible and politically motivated (and not in a good way). No one believes Palin was fully vetted. And no one has any idea how this will play out.

What an unfortunate typo.

[m52nickerson]

Palins experience and background is not better or even equal to Obama's

Education:

Palin - BS degree in communications-journalism from the University of Idaho.

Obama - BA in Political science from Columbia, Law degree from Harvard. He also taught Constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for a number of years.

Political Experience:

Palin - Wasilla City Counsel 1992-1996, Major of Wasilla 1996-2002, Governor of Alaska 2006-current.

Obama - Illinois state senate 1996-2004, United States Senate 2005-current.

Other applicable experience:

Palin - 2003-2004 Chair Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

Obama - 1985-1988 Director of the Developing Communities Project (Chicago), 1990-1991 President of the Harvard Law Review, 1992-2004 Member of numerous neighborhood boards, and city charitable organizations.

Obama's education dwarfs that of Palin's. His state senate experience is equal to or better then her time in Wasilla, and the same can be said regarding his US Senate experience vs. her single year as Gov. Not to mention that Obama has been almost always been in some form of public service role since 1992.

His pedigree is far superior.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Palins experience and background is not better or even equal to Obama's

Education:

Palin - BS degree in communications-journalism from the University of Idaho.

Obama - BA in Political science from Columbia, Law degree from Harvard. He also taught Constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for a number of years.

Political Experience:

Palin - Wasilla City Counsel 1992-1996, Major of Wasilla 1996-2002, Governor of Alaska 2006-current.

Obama - Illinois state senate 1996-2004, United States Senate 2005-current.

Other applicable experience:

Palin - 2003-2004 Chair Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

Obama - 1985-1988 Director of the Developing Communities Project (Chicago), 1990-1991 President of the Harvard Law Review, 1992-2004 Member of numerous neighborhood boards, and city charitable organizations.

Obama's education dwarfs that of Palin's. His state senate experience is equal to or better then her time in Wasilla, and the same can be said regarding his US Senate experience vs. her single year as Gov. Not to mention that Obama has been almost always been in some form of public service role since 1992.

His pedigree is far superior.

She has been governor for 20 months. It gets shorter and shorter depending on whom you speak with. Obama has been a Senator for 4 years, 2 of which he has been running a national campaign for the Presidency. During her time in Wasilla she at least had executive experience and learned how to run things - this is . She did such a good job that she became the President of the Alaskan council of mayors. This led to her beating the long run establishment candidate for the highest State office.

Do you really believe that her being the mayor of Wasilla from 1996-2002 (after being in the city council since 1992) is inferior to Barack's 13th district? Here is a map of the Illinois State Senate breakdown.Link. The differences between Biden and McCain on experience are similar in scope to the difference between Palin and Obama. In addition to that seeming equality Palin has had executive experience RUNNING things, while Obama up until this year has run nothing but an office in a massive building.

And to top it all - Palin isn't running for president - she knows she would be better in the #2 spot at the moment. If Obama could get past the hubris he'd see that it might be more appropriate for him to be in the second spot. Obama has started competing in the minds of voters with the Republican vice president. When they come out favorably in his favor (which is a 50-50 chance), he still has to compete with the presidential nominee. You'll have him run 2 elections, Count.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Actually, the Dems would LOVE for the campaign to take an Obama v Palin tone for a while. The only person forgotten in such a focus would be.....John McCain.

Palin's experience is dwarfed by Biden's. Yet she can play the "I'm not a Washington Insider" card against him. It's Obama v McCain in reverse.

The real truth, however, is that -- barring a MAJOR gaffe by one of the Veep nominees -- it will all come down to Obama and McCain's appeals in those 12 or so "swing" states. I think it will be pretty close, but still stick with my original prediction of a modest/marginal win for Obama in the EC (and somewhat larger win in the popular).

[JR-]

His pedigree is far superior.

it kind of has to be given that he is going for Potus and she VeeP.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Actually, the Dems would LOVE for the campaign to take an Obama v Palin tone for a while. The only person forgotten in such a focus would be.....John McCain.

Palin's experience is dwarfed by Biden's. Yet she can play the "I'm not a Washington Insider" card against him. It's Obama v McCain in reverse.

The real truth, however, is that -- barring a MAJOR gaffe by one of the Veep nominees -- it will all come down to Obama and McCain's appeals in those 12 or so "swing" states. I think it will be pretty close, but still stick with my original prediction of a modest/marginal win for Obama in the EC (and somewhat larger win in the popular).

Yea probably, but it was supposed to be a landslide for Obama in February. We all know how unlikely it is that we'll win, but lets see if we can make some more ground.

Republicans are now selling investment in change rather than the Democrats message of immediate leftist change. With Obama you get a radical leftist departure with a black man at the helm. With McCain you get a proven reformer with a history making woman in the number 2 spot. Sure he is a white guy, but we can trust him more easily for lasting change, as seen by his willingness to rock the establishment boat without capsizing it and his years as a game changer in the Senate. That is a viable argument that Americans might prefer - we love middle ways between two currents.

[KukriKhan]

Meanwhile, what kind of Congress are we gonna give the eventual POTUS winner to work with?

Dem - Dem - Dem? (WhiteHouse - Senate - House)

Dem - Dem/Rep - Dem?<---(if I had to place a bet today, I'd put $5 on this one).

Rep - Dem/Rep - Dem?

For six years, we gave GWB a rock-solid no-veto-required Majority. Will we do the same for the Obama?

[ICantSpellDawg]

Meanwhile, what kind of Congress are we gonna give the eventual POTUS winner to work with?

Dem - Dem - Dem? (WhiteHouse - Senate - House)

Dem - Dem/Rep - Dem?<---(if I had to place a bet today, I'd put $5 on this one).

Rep - Dem/Rep - Dem?

For six years, we gave GWB a rock-solid no-veto-required Majority. Will we do the same for the Obama?

"Haven't we learned our lesson from a rock solid majority? It will be more important than ever to check any one party that has the Senate and the House. Dems are slated to expand their hold on the House and Senate. I can't control how people vote on Senators in Minnesota, but I can vote for the President. I'll vote for a reasonable Republican who can work with a Democratic congress."

They should make a commercial paraphrasing my little sentiment. It is a winning argument, especially since we have a McCain/Palin ticket of Maverick Reform.

[KukriKhan]

"Haven't we learned our lesson from a rock solid majority? It will be more important than ever to check any one party that has the Senate and the House. Dems are slated to expand their hold on the House and Senate. I can't control how people vote on Senators in Minnesota, but I can vote for the President. I'll vote for a reasonable Republican who can work with a Democratic congress."

They should make a commercial paraphrasing my little sentiment. It is a winning argument, especially since we have a McCain/Palin ticket of Maverick Reform.

I won't be surprised to see such an ad around October 20th, when both sides really scramble to pick up the remaining Indys/Undecideds.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Daily Kos bashes Palin for being a Governor and a mother at the same time.

I love these guys. I thought we were meant to be after they started spreading the rumor that Sarah Palin is was lying about giving birth to her newborn son, Trigg.
Their new headline is:
Palin leaves infant disabled son to jetset around the country

Operation: Attack Sarah using her child who has downs syndrome. I thought the left only went after people with downs syndrome before they were born? Scum.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome

A 2002 literature review of elective abortion rates found that 91–93% of pregnancies with a diagnosis of Down syndrome were terminated.[24] Physicians and ethicists are concerned about the ethical ramifications of this.[25] Conservative commentator George Will called it "eugenics by abortion".[26] British peer Brian Rix stated that "alas, the birth of a child with Down's syndrome is still considered by many to be an utter tragedy" and that the "ghost of the biologist Sir Francis Galton, who founded the eugenics movement in 1885, still stalks the corridors of many a teaching hospital".[27] Doctor David Mortimer has argued in Ethics & Medicine that "Down's syndrome infants have long been disparaged by some doctors and government bean counters."[28] Some members of the disability rights movement "believe that public support for prenatal diagnosis and abortion based on disability contravenes the movement's basic philosophy and goals."[29]

A 1998 study of Finnish doctors found that "Only very few, pediatricians somewhat more often, thought that Down's syndrome is not a good enough reason for pregnancy termination, but more (15-21%) thought that current prenatal screenings in general are (partly) based on eugenic thinking."

Also - if Trigg is her daughter' and was born in April - how is Bristol 5 months pregnant now? She would have had to have gotten re-pregnant a month before she had her child...?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Obama's education dwarfs that of Palin's. His state senate experience is equal to or better then her time in Wasilla, and the same can be said regarding his US Senate experience vs. her single year as Gov. Not to mention that Obama has been almost always been in some form of public service role since 1992.

His pedigree is far superior.

I must laugh at your comparison between the state senate and being a mayor.

It seems to me, in a machine politics state like Illinois, that being elected as a cog of that machine while facing no real opposition because you kicked them out of the race on technical grounds is very easy; you simply vote as the machine tells you to.

A mayor, on the other hand, even of a small town, has to think.

And what he's mainly done after being elected to the US senate while facing a carpet bagger republican is campaign for President. That seems to be most of his public life; using his current role to step up to a bigger one. His 'community organizer' role was merely organized political extortion.

It's inconceivable to me how the dems can say Palin has zero experience, with Obama at the top of their ticket.

Obama has no executive experience. In the Senate he's hardly passed any legislation of his own. He's done nothing, really, but thinks he can run the USA.

In world diplomacy he'd get hammered worse than Kennedy did in his first meeting with the head of the USSR.

CR

[Strike For The South]

I like how the woman goes on to say she left her 3 month infant to go back to work to, she just had emotions about it. Whose to say Palin didn't? Im all for ruining these peoples lives and railroading them into the ground but Im sure the dailykos can do better than that.

[m52nickerson]

Do you really believe that her being the mayor of Wasilla from 1996-2002 (after being in the city council since 1992) is inferior to Barack's 13th district? Here is a map of the Illinois State Senate breakdown.Link. The differences between Biden and McCain on experience are similar in scope to the difference between Palin and Obama. In addition to that seeming equality Palin has had executive experience RUNNING things, while Obama up until this year has run nothing but an office in a massive building.

And to top it all - Palin isn't running for president - she knows she would be better in the #2 spot at the moment. If Obama could get past the hubris he'd see that it might be more appropriate for him to be in the second spot. Obama has started competing in the minds of voters with the Republican vice president. When they come out favorably in his favor (which is a 50-50 chance), he still has to compete with the presidential nominee. You'll have him run 2 elections, Count.

Yes, I believe his experience in a state level position is greater then her experience at a city level position. Just as I believe that experience at the federal level is better then experience at the state level.

No, she is not running for president, but she is running for VP under a person of 72 years of age.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Yes, I believe his experience in a state level position is greater then her experience at a city level position. Just as I believe that experience at the federal level is better then experience at the state level.

No, she is not running for president, but she is running for VP under a person of 72 years of age.

????

You believe that a Senator is more suitable for the Presidency than a Governor just because of the State/Federal Divide? I don't. My State Senator has hardly anything to do with how my town is run on a day to day basis.

A Mayor/State Senator ratio is similar to the State Governor/Federal Senator ratio.

Ironically but not directly related:
Obama was a smoker up until this year and is going to be the first minority in the Presidency - maybe his statistical likelihood of surviving into his second term isn't much greater than McCain's...? He could die in office, but he probably won't. By the time Palin took over the presidency she would have a 95% chance of having much more experience when she takes the reigns than Obama will entering the same position at the top of his ticket.

It is safe to say that she has much more immediately applicable experience and is perfectly suitable to be a VP candidate.

[JR-]

isn't all this blather about Obama being more experienced really just ignoring the elephant in the room, i.e. that Palin is just the VeeP and McCain dwarf's them both?

[Lemur]

And McCain's experience is almost entirely legislative as well, he hasn't been mayor of anything. And none of them have been President before, so you could legitimately say that they're all unqualified, and the only people with real experience are George W. Bush and Jimmy Carter. Maybe they can rule together?

[ICantSpellDawg]

isn't all this blather about Obama being more experienced really just ignoring the elephant in the room, i.e. that Palin is just the VeeP and McCain dwarf's them both?

When brought to its logical conclusion it is. Thanks, Obama campaign for bringing this up for discussion.

[ICantSpellDawg]

And McCain's experience is almost entirely legislative as well, he hasn't been mayor of anything. And none of them have been President before, so you could legitimately say that they're all unqualified, and the only people with real experience are George W. Bush and Jimmy Carter. Maybe they can rule together?

...And HW Bush (CIA Director, Vice President for 2 terms, ambassador to the UN, Liason to China, U.S. Congressman), And Regan (Governor, Actor) and Clinton (Governor, Attorney General)... Why would you pick the two least popular presidents in modern history?

[m52nickerson]

????

You believe that a Senator is more suitable for the Presidency than a Governor just because of the State/Federal Divide? I don't. My State Senator has hardly anything to do with how my town is run on a day to day basis.

A Mayor/State Senator ratio is similar to the State Governor/Federal Senator ratio.

Depends on the senator, but overall I think experience at the federal level as a senator or a representative is better then that of a Governor. Yes, a governor does gain executive experience, but that experience is at a state level, and lets not pretend that each state governor seat in this country is equal.

No executive experience is any were near that of the Office of the President.

Experience at the federal level persons get to see first hand how the executive branch is run and how each decision affects not only that level of government, but the ones below.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I always thought LBJ was a Governor from Texas. Oops