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Thread: Dang Urban Malitia

  1. #1
    Member Member Kamakazi's Avatar
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    Default Dang Urban Malitia

    I know that over all urban malitia are relitivly weak... They do have a bonus v armor though...even with that they always get crushed by just baout every unit i send them agains

    any tactics or matchups u can gimme to help me use them better?

    id be greatly appreciative


    Last edited by Kamakazi; 06-04-2008 at 18:29.
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  2. #2
    Misanthropos Member I of the Storm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Don't use them in the open. Especially not unsupported. When defending, deploy in woods. They perform quite good there, esp. against all sorts of cavalry. When attacking, either don't use them at all or as flankers. Replace them with Militia Sergeants ASAP. Same upkeep, better stats.

    Or as arrow-fodder/charge-brake.

    Their main strength is their low upkeep. Especially those who have played a HRE early campaign are wizards with UMs afterwards ...
    Last edited by I of the Storm; 06-04-2008 at 19:09.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    As IotS says, I have found them pretty useful as cheap flankers. Pin down a spear unit with one of your own, and charge them in from the sides.

    However, I have found that they can hold their own against some of the early spear units, as long as you exploit their strong charge statistic. I think they make quite a good anti-spear unit in the early years - just because you haven't got anything that's much better or cheaper for this purpose.

    Of course, as IotS has pointed out, upgrade them as soon as possible!
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    They are only useful as flankers or in woods as described above, their defence and moral stats are too low to make them useful in melee. They benefit from morale and armour upgrades, but are really just garrison units.
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

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    Member Member Kamakazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    ok ill keep that in mind in my eggy campain
    If living is nothing dieing is nothing then nothing is everything and everything is nothing


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    Wandering Fool Senior Member bamff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Quote Originally Posted by Cambyses II View Post
    They are only useful as flankers or in woods as described above, their defence and moral stats are too low to make them useful in melee. They benefit from morale and armour upgrades, but are really just garrison units.
    Couldn't agree more - they are garrison troops. Any that I have will only ever take the field due to (a) shortage of other units; or (b) because they have a multi star general (why oh why was he not born a knight or something more useful).

    I tend not to recruit them at all once I can recruit other units.

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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Quote Originally Posted by bamff View Post
    Couldn't agree more - they are garrison troops. Any that I have will only ever take the field due to (a) shortage of other units; or (b) because they have a multi star general (why oh why was he not born a knight or something more useful).

    I tend not to recruit them at all once I can recruit other units.
    Ditto all that. I never bring UM to a battle unless I'm absolutely desperate for troops, if they're serving garrison duty in a province that happens to be attacked, and/or if they're led by a general/governor I don't want to lose. I usually stop training them the moment Militia Sergeants become available.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

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    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    A bit like woodsmen, a sort of slow cavalry.
    #Hillary4prism

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    Wandering Fool Senior Member bamff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Actually jumping back to the original question of tactics and matchups...

    I recall one battle when my garrison force of one unit of UM's had to face a rebellion....consisting of 2 units of archers.

    I waited atop a hill.

    They marched towards me.

    Just before they got within firing range, I charged UM's down the hill head on. They smashed into the first lot of archers, who were then pinned against the second lot.

    The second lot of archers tried to withdraw (To get back to a firing position I guess). Unfortunately for them, my UM's had hacked their way through the first lot, and were now hitting their broken line from the rear (as they were walking away).

    A rare victory for the UM's, but it had a huge degree of luck involved!

    So....match them up against archers or peasants - if you are lucky enough to pick your opponents....

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    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    I actually had a recent battle were one unit of UM chopped through 3 units of hobilars in a open battle (forests are for wimps). So they aren't useless early on.

    That they were valour 9 had absolutely nothing to do with it
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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    Member Member Knight of the Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamakazi View Post
    ok ill keep that in mind in my eggy campain
    Eggy camp? Then you build CAMELS, not UB - same price, more value! In non-desert lands? Don't build them, build vanilla spears instead until you get to Arab Inf.

    /KotR

  12. #12
    Misanthropos Member I of the Storm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Egyptians? UMs? No way. You have so many beautiful units at your disposal! Camels, camels and camels as well as nubian spears, muwahids, camels...

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    Cardinal Member Ironsword's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    ^^ As above, camels a go-go.

    I rarely even recruit UM's, vanilla archers and spearmen can decimate them.
    For example; I had a rebellion uprising in Mercia in early, consisting of 7 units of UM's and 2 ballista. I had a unit of hobilars, 1 x spearmen, 1 x archers and a single royal knight (3*, great warrior, utterly fearless.) Needless to say, rebellion was crushed completely, I lost 16 men overall, mainly due to some lucky ballista bolts thumping into my spears.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    With the Egyptians there is only one formula, and that is camels, nubian spearmen, ghazi infantry and desert archers. Vanilla Spears and UM are a no.
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

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    Arcane Alcholic Member Drunk-Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    I never recruit Urban militia or any milita unit for that matter,they just aren't worth the money.

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    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunk-Monk
    I never recruit Urban militia or any milita unit for that matter,they just aren't worth the money.
    I take it you've never played as the Almos then. Almohad Urban Militia are one of the best infantry units in the game, particularly with regard to their modest cost and build requirements.

    Also, Militia Sergeants aren't that bad either. Not that you'd want to use them in your center line, but they can be useful auxiliary units.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  17. #17

    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    The militia units are compromises, in a manner of speaking.

    The UM are a compromise between dirt and flanking - not really dirt, but not really an ideal flanker either.

    The MS, for their part, are a compromise between anti cavalry, anti line infantry and flanking. Not especially proficient in either role.

    Halbs are supposed to keep the flanks clear of horsetanks or attack the enemy line, though for both purposes there are better units. Other than that, I suppose, they can be told to eat some of the enemy projectiles. But you rarely face anything other than arbs at that stage of the game anyway, so it's not ideal for them to be doing this bc of the arbs' ap bonus.

    Pikes compromise between offense and defense in a kind of straight forward way. Talented at stopping charges and good at fighting. They cover less ground than spears so they are easier to flank. They don't have shields or armour, so they die ridiculously fast under missile fire.

    So, ofc, there are uses for the militias. It's just that for every use you put them to there are specialists who do that same thing way better. Halbs, though, provide some sorry factions with a polearm unit.

    I think, however, that the total attack value for a MS against cavalry is the same as it is for the Halb (I don't have access to any un-modded unit_prod, so can't say for sure - anyone?) as the MS has a base attack of 2 and a +1 against cav. The Halb has a base of 0 and a +3 against cav. The Halbs do survive longer, though, and this wins them the 'honour' of going toe to toe with the various HC war machines out there.

    Does it pay to recruit them? Maybe, because what alternatives are there? Early on, it's UM if you want to flank. Later, it's MS if you want some anti cavalry. Later still, halbs will deterr flankers that would scoff at MS. Pikes, however, are a tad to vulnerable for my taste to be used at all. Though if you have the opportunity to fight an army that lacks missiles (and for some wild reason have massed pikes) you can have fun. Just charge away as they can take on both infantry and cavalry. But you really just recruit them in order to pretend that you're Alexander the Great. Thing is, he didn't really lose. Which you will. Scrap the pikes. And stop my ranting.

  18. #18
    Member Member Kamakazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Quote Originally Posted by I of the Storm View Post
    Egyptians? UMs? No way. You have so many beautiful units at your disposal! Camels, camels and camels as well as nubian spears, muwahids, camels...

    every time ive used nubian spears the got owned ...i had them in good matchups too......so i just stopped building them
    If living is nothing dieing is nothing then nothing is everything and everything is nothing


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    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamakazi View Post
    every time ive used nubian spears the got owned ...i had them in good matchups too......so i just stopped building them
    As I've said elsewhere, it's been my experience that Nubians really aren't a whole lot better than other factions' vanilla spearmen. Aside from taking on light infantry & cavalry, I don't rely on them to do much. I generally restrict them to garrison duty as soon as I can recruit Saracen and/or Muwahid Infantry.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  20. #20

    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Again with the heat on the nubians! Stat-wise they are exactly as FS aside from 1 less charge (which you never use anyway) and the fact that they (the Nubians) enjoy disciplined status. They are therefore better units than FS, a unit that generally doesn't seem to catch too much slander.

    Ofc, Saracens are better at holding the line, which is what they are designed to do, and Muwahids are better at flank protection, which is what they are designed to do. But the Nubians are competent at both roles and preferable to the specialists at whichever role they're not intended for. They're a compromise, much like the militia units and provide a measure of tactical flexibility. Such as forward pinning (something I find the saracens are quite crappy at) and being a spear wall (something the Muwahids are worse at because of lower numbers) all in one and the same battle.

    I think they're kinda neat.

  21. #21
    Misanthropos Member I of the Storm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Quote Originally Posted by bondovic View Post
    Again with the heat on the nubians! Stat-wise they are exactly as FS aside from 1 less charge (which you never use anyway) and the fact that they (the Nubians) enjoy disciplined status. They are therefore better units than FS, a unit that generally doesn't seem to catch too much slander.

    Ofc, Saracens are better at holding the line, which is what they are designed to do, and Muwahids are better at flank protection, which is what they are designed to do. But the Nubians are competent at both roles and preferable to the specialists at whichever role they're not intended for. They're a compromise, much like the militia units and provide a measure of tactical flexibility. Such as forward pinning (something I find the saracens are quite crappy at) and being a spear wall (something the Muwahids are worse at because of lower numbers) all in one and the same battle.

    I think they're kinda neat.
    QFT!

    And they're available quite early.

  22. #22
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Quote Originally Posted by bondovic View Post
    Again with the heat on the nubians! Stat-wise they are exactly as FS aside from 1 less charge (which you never use anyway) and the fact that they (the Nubians) enjoy disciplined status. They are therefore better units than FS, a unit that generally doesn't seem to catch too much slander.
    Actually,they also got a small shield instead of a large one. Still better than normal spearmen though.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  23. #23

    Default Re: Dang Urban Malitia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    Actually,they also got a small shield instead of a large one. Still better than normal spearmen though.
    By the heavens, man, you're right! I guess they changed it to large in the XL mod. Or maybe Tyberius did it with his add-on? Then the FS are better indeed.

    My bad.

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