American Socialism

[Redleg]

What about an accident at home? What about all sorts of things that can happen? What happens to the people who cannot afford insurance or are simply ineligible? if the community hospitals and free care were covering all the needs, there wouldn't be a problem, but there is.

Most assume something because they dont know. In fact if someone is injured - hospitals have to start initial treatment to protect life and limb without asking about ability to pay. So accidents are covered for immediate treatment.

It's the same mindset that says the government has to send the police to your house to get the bad guys out even though it was you that left the door unlocked. Or to send the fire department even though it was your own cigarette that started the fire. It's a social responsibility.

The mindset is simple: it's because I told them to.

Again the government does not have the responsiblity to insure I take care of myself - it is my responsibility to take care of myself. It has a responsiblity to insure the welfare of the people, providing emerancy treatment for those injuried does the exact same thing as the police and fire department does in your examble. In fact this emergency treatment is already law. So in this examble the United States is fulfilling your basic requirement as presented here.

So while you believe it applies to socialized medicine - I don't necessarily disagree - just that the government has a responsibility to have a workable plan before it attempts to change the current system. If you think Iraq is a mess - let the government attempt to change the medicial system without a thought out plan....

From what I've seen and heard, I don't believe the health insurance corporations are run with the same level of altruism that you do.

I trust them just as far as I trust the government to insure my personal wellbeing...which is not at all. I am the only person or enity that can insure my own well being.

I'm sorry, but that sounds a bit "let them eat cake" -ish. For-profit medicine cuts off the most vulnerable. What does a guy who's retired, has a fixed income, and is ineligible for insurance because he's had two heart attacks already do? His options at that point seem to boil down to "hope for the best". That doesn't do it for me.

He alreadly has coverage its called medicaid or medicare depending on his age. Most fixed income people get this coverage alreadly - they just have to apply for it. My income is alreadly taxed for both programs. So again he has the ability to take care of himself - if he choses to exercise that ability. Now the young student working at Mcdee's would better suit your arguement. He can not often afford to have insurance while working that job, but he often does not see the need for it either.

I'm more big government than you, no doubt, but probably less than you think. I don't want the government in my bedroom or my library, but I do want them running the major social programs.

That's the crux - major social programs in the united states are full of fraud waste and abuse. The two biggest ones were initially great social programs to help those on fixed incomes or out of work. Now they are abused to the point of causing the system to fail. Which is why I argue that any plan for socialized medicine must be well thought out and have a fundmental basic plan that addresses as many of the issues as possible, that is flexiable enough to survive contact with the first crisis, and prevents the problems of a large buerarcy from overwelming it. taking care of 300 million people where at least 40% are unfit will be a difficult mission for any government to assume with a viable plan, completely doomed to failure without one.

Our health care laws are federal, but the provinces administer the services and regional health boards run the day to day.

levels upon levels of buerarcy. Not much different then the insurance companies.

Yes cold hard cash does pay the bills, but there is far more to lthe responsibilities and interaction between the people and its government representatives than cold hard cash. At least there better be. Regardless, there is no reason socialized medicine should bankrupt a country unless the country is stupid enough to let itself be bankrupted.

Had a good look at the American governments debt lately? Getting closer and closer to that possiblity. Well we could always nationalize our debt.

Not that difficult if one looks at the norm of the American health posture. Aging population that wishes to prolong their lives which is the norm of the baby boomers also. Again arguing that socialized medicine is great is fine - but how would the government implement the system is the real issue.

Again, I've seen the actions of corporate giants who hold holy naught but profit. I'll trust my government long before I trust the banks, the insurance companies, and the multi-nationals. At least I can kick my government in the keester when required.

I just assume they are all crooks - and that I can make the best decisions concerning my personal wellbeing.

It's a huge deal, no doubt. But one worth doing.

Which is why I argue that until there is a viable plan that the government can not get their hands into it.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but there are limits to that. People get sick. They get deathly ill, crippled, and are unable to work. They are affected by events beyond their control. Real life does not play fair. The whole point of a government is to manage programs that benefit the people, what other reason for government is there? Health care is essential to the people and the people have it within their right to insist that the government assist them.

Talking to a man with a rapid cycle bi-polar wife, a bi-polar sociopathic step-son - things often get beyond an individuals ability to cope - that is what family and community are for to support you in times of trouble. Why should I demand that the government assist or take care of personal issues? What benefit does the whole get out of fixing the individual? Making demands of the government to fix all your problems does not fix your problem. You have a personal and social responsiblity to take care of them yourself. Government handouts should always be the last resort to any personal problem. Again the system alreadly has laws and functions to insure that everyone gets the necessary treatment to protect life and limb regardless of the ability to pay. So the system already provides for the general welfare of the people. To insure I get my shots and take care of myself -is still a personal responsibility not a government responsibility

Then tell them to.

They have been told - to bad they don't know how to listen.

Louis Obama? Barrack's brother?

Nope our local frenchman who wants to be a Texan

If I may, and I ask because I truly don't understand, how do you see Joe Citizen's duty to his fellow American? Where does it start and stop?

To present yourself with honesty and intergity toward your fellow citizen. To provide what charity is needed to insure those in your community have the ability to achieve success if they chose to. To provide for the general welfare of the community by insure you keep the peace.

In other words Beriut I would give the shirt off my back to help a guy out that desires to better himself. But I have little to support those who wish to be support by the government.