Let's talk about cavalry

[QuintusSertorius]

Always better to use spear/lance for the initial charge (bigger charge bonus), then switch to secondary afterwards. Charge with Alt+double click and they do that automatically.

[The General]

Always better to use spear/lance for the initial charge (bigger charge bonus), then switch to secondary afterwards. Charge with Alt+double click and they do that automatically.

Except that if they're too close to enemy they charge with their alternative weapons.

On the Rider-issue, why have regular HAs rather than rider-HAs? The cost is the only reason I'd imagine, but I'm just curious if there's more reasons, or if it's about a principle ("'best-of-the-best or cheapest-of-the-cheap', m'dad used t' say. *nodnod*").

[Timoleon]

Always better to use spear/lance for the initial charge (bigger charge bonus), then switch to secondary afterwards.

Since spears/lances have a bonus against horses, I thought that maybe it would be more effective to use them even in melee against enemy cavalry.

[QuintusSertorius]

Since spears/lances have a bonus against horses, I thought that maybe it would be more effective to use them even in melee against enemy cavalry.

I don't think the spear-bonus against cavalry applies in cavalry-on-cavalry fights.

[Ludens]

Since spears/lances have a bonus against horses, I thought that maybe it would be more effective to use them even in melee against enemy cavalry.

Lances have such low attack values and so long an attack delay that they are useless in close-combat, cavalry-bonus or no. Only use during the charge. Spears are a different matter, but do they have the spear-attribute?

[gamegeek2]

1: I believe the don't actually get the bonus.
2: The lances aren't useless in melee, and reasons why.
-Ingame, they are armour-piercing and have a high lethality rate, good in a cataphract fight
-Historically, the two-handed grip was preferred over the couch during this period because, with the lack of the stirrup, the impact was equal (even though the two-handed grip was much harder) and the two-handed grip allowed use in melee.

[QuintusSertorius]

Here's a weird one for you. Curepos/Leuce Epos have an AP lance as their backup. Which would explain why I get such good charge results out of them, but also why they're so weak in melee.

Was that intentional?

[jhhowell]

Here's a weird one for you. Curepos/Leuce Epos have an AP lance as their backup. Which would explain why I get such good charge results out of them, but also why they're so weak in melee.

Was that intentional?

AFAIK, the RTW engine only allows units to have two weapons. Curepos and similar (and in this sense, cataphract HA are "similar") have their missile weapon as primary and lance as secondary. No doubt if three weapons were possible they'd have a sword or something too. This is the only advantage cataphracts have over cata-HA - the latter have no maces for melee.

On the Rider-issue, why have regular HAs rather than rider-HAs? The cost is the only reason I'd imagine, but I'm just curious if there's more reasons, or if it's about a principle ("'best-of-the-best or cheapest-of-the-cheap', m'dad used t' say. *nodnod*").

Mostly cost (which is a principle, as you say ), but also accessibility. Late game it doesn't matter, I can recruit anything I want by now, but basic HA are in the level 1 MIC, Riders are level 2 or 3. So early in the game there's the double whammy of a cheaper unit that's much more easily obtained (3 turns vs. 9, thus allowing six turns of economic construction instead, at a time when every mnai counts). But, that relies on having strong bodyguards to take care of your charging needs. Hayasdan, Parthia, and I believe Pontus all have that; Baktria may not, I seem to recall their early bodyguard isn't that great (late, of course, being the best in the game to my knowledge). So STuNTz2023's example is a good one. I really have to find time for a Baktria campaign someday...

Midgame, the Rider strategy might require some fiddling. Would replacing Riders with basic HA free up the upkeep to allow a unit of Kinsmen/cataphracts/cata-HA that one would otherwise be unable to afford? Could be an interesting trade-off for certain factions.

[Ludens]

-Ingame, they are armour-piercing and have a high lethality rate, good in a cataphract fight
-Historically, the two-handed grip was preferred over the couch during this period because, with the lack of the stirrup, the impact was equal (even though the two-handed grip was much harder) and the two-handed grip allowed use in melee.

Most lance-using cavalry have an AP secondary weapon, and AP is not able to compensate for low attack values. The stirrup is not that much use when charging, BTW. A high saddle is far more important.

[Happy balroae]

i would always use riders rather than normal HA because of the better charge and they can chase down weaker foot archers. if you can aford it go for armoured HA because tho they cost more you dont take as many casualties from missle fire