Blitz All Challenge

[Askthepizzaguy]

1. All old world provinces (106) must be taken by a certain turn number.

2. The current record is 28.

Score: (turn number)

75: Fair
65: Decent
55: Good
45: Very Good
35: Exceptional
28: CURRENT RECORD
Below 28: Show me proof, and the title is yours.

Version: 1.2 Vanilla
No mods. No cheat codes. No mercy.



Hints:

Ballista weren't used, much.
Spies can't move fast enough.
The Pope is your friend.
Catholic faction.
Captain promotions.
Endless recruitment.
Excommunication equals death... unless you can survive!
Diplomacy before you backstab.
Troops will be lost to desertion.

[zaher]

I started as Sycily and took Constantinople by turn 9 but got dissapointed by fact that lack of manegement bored me and stopped Fun was with my princess - she got charm 9 at age 20 .

[Paradox]

Now here's a great challenge, I'm gonna have to try this.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I started as Sycily and took Constantinople by turn 9 but got dissapointed by fact that lack of manegement bored me and stopped Fun was with my princess - she got charm 9 at age 20 .

Management is still possible. But since most of your resources will be focused on military concerns, troop recruitment, military buildings, agent recruitment, fast expansion, and so forth, the economic side of the game will not happen until you've taken about a third of the map or so, and then only for purely selfish gains like building ports for a quick trade boost.

Sicily isn't a good faction for this. They will not be able to crusade through many excommunicated Catholic factions, a key element to rolling up the map.

I recommend England or France, as I've personally completed the challenge with them. However, I feel it is possible to do so with the Holy Roman empire, Venice, Spain, Portugal, Milan, Poland, and Hungary. Maybe Denmark.

The key is owning all of central Europe very quickly, as crusades to the corners of the map take care of the rest. I found the best way to do so was a mix of ending crusades with 4 or 5 stacks inside Catholic territories, then massively backstabbing them, or crusading and abandoning the crusade after capturing a settlement, thus turning all those troops into non-crusading units for a while.

You will need to be fielding roughly 15 stacks ASAP. By the end of the game, you should have at least 25 offensive stacks, and of course militias keeping order at home.

You will go into debt, but you must conquer your way out of it. Troops are more valuable than florins.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now here's a great challenge, I'm gonna have to try this.

Are you armed with the knowledge of crusading loopholes in vanilla?

1. you have 10 turns to leave a crusade and join it again. Use this wisely.

2. ending a turn inside a freshly captured settlement, and leaving a non-crusading general or captain in command of the garrison turns all crusading units into non-crusading garrison. Which can be used against Catholics. Basically, with good management against Muslim, Orthodox, and excommed Catholic settlement capturing, you can crusade through and against fellow Catholics.

3. You can move in any direction you like for 10 turns. If you wish to avoid troop loss to desertion, leave/join the crusade again.

4. Leave/join/leave/join until your chivalry is at maximum. Doesn't help you except in battle and keeping settlements from rebelling, though.

Also:

5. sack, sack, sack, sack, sack.

6. Exterminate only as a last resort to prevent rebellion.

7. Don't get excommunicated. I've said it before, I say it again. But dance on that thin blue line as much as possible.

8. Popey needs a bribe.

9. Promote captains against rebels and wandering enemies.

10. Every single general must be his own crusading stack.

11. The ten turns between crusades are critical. You must keep the Pope happy and keep your troops healthy. Sack your way out of debt or nearly out of debt. Then bribe him again and do another crusade, and have every available troop join.

12. Massive levels of free troops is the ONLY way to win.

13. Adopted generals tend to pile up after a while. keep recruiting militia troops and mercenaries so they can join the crusade as well, and split off into 2 or more stacks.

14. A large crusading army versus rebels. Take half of your stack, no general, and attack. Promote the captain. Join the crusade.

Now you have two crusading armies for the price of one.

15. Even if you know how to do it, it is a maddening race against time. You do not have a moment to spare, and you never ever ever have enough troops.

16. If you need additional hints, I'm here.

PS: Stunningly, most of those loopholes continue to work even in the patched versions, and later versions of Lands to Conquer. Blasphemy? No, just the harsh truth. Only one that I am aware of that got fixed is the free chivalry for joining and leaving the crusade over and over.

[Paradox]

Is disabling fog of war considered to be a cheat? How can I promote captainss? I never knew I could do that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Is disabling fog of war considered to be a cheat?

I did my campaign without doing so.

However, if you feel it will help you, by all means. Just make sure you note that when you post your completed campaign screen. I do not feel it will give you enough of an advantage to make the challenge significantly easier. As said previously, even if you know what you need to do, doing it is difficult. Planning is tricky here. You cannot have one front. You will have many, many fronts.

Every single turn, every single general, captain, agent, and unit MUST be doing something to capture a settlement, or preparing for a crusade. It will take 2 or 3 crusades to win.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Promoting captains:

1. Have more territories than generals (roughly)

2. Have a captain-led army win a battle against a standing army (rebel or not... but not seige situations)

3. Have the battle odds be nearly even

4. I have found that auto-resolve works wonders, but I cannot say whether your odds of nabbing a general improve.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Proof that it can be done:
(England)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now witness the final destruction of the alliance, and the end of your insignificant rebellion.

FIRE AT WILL, COMMANDER!

KABOOOOM!

Oh no! That thing's operational!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Turn 49: Beginning the final assault against all remaining provinces. For the sake of brevity, only one photo per turn until the last turn.



Turn 50: Enough troops to stomp the Turks? Perhaps I should send more.



Turn 51: Egypt has one province left, as does Hungary and Russia.



Turn 52: My forces arrive at the heart of the Ottoman empire. It does not look like they have the manpower to defend themselves.



Turn 53: And Russia goes down without a fight.



Turn 54: With Russia destroyed, the Egyptians are next. I prepare to backstab the papacy.



Turn 55: The last remnants of Egypt are gone. The Turks are down to one province. Baghdad has enough forces to repel my initial assault.



Turn 56: The Turks are crushed, and the crusade ends. Imperial forces swarm towards Baghdad. Meanwhile, Arguin, the remaining African province, and probably the most isolated and worthless piece of expletive deleted in the game, is about to be crushed.



Turn 57: I finally give the Papacy what they deserve for years of annoying messages about not attacking my fellow Christians. I am officially excommunicated at long last this turn...

But wait! I OWN the college of cardinals. Does the Pope seriously think I will let him live?



Turn 58: Baghdad falls to the glorious Empire.



Here is a display of the public order bonus in Rome, even at maximum taxation, due to both my glory bonus, the way I strike fear into the hearts of men, and by the authority of my ruler. I make Rome my capital on the final turn.



A glimpse at the finances of my glorious empire. I may be deficit spending now, but by the time the Mongoloids arrive, my army will be sleek, streamlined, and all surplus troops will be eliminated. Also, I can finally spend money on improving my provinces.

Rest assured, in about 15 turns, I will be making perhaps 50,000 florins per turn. All I need to do is cut my massive, redundant armies in half.




A display of the final score of my game. King Rufus, my original faction heir, conquered the entire world during his lifetime.



How I got un-excommunicated. Hint: I own all the cardinals. My official relations with the Papacy are now Neutral. I guess they finally got the hint that it is unwise to challenge my rule. The millions slaughtered along the way might have been a clue.



For those of you paying attention, here it is: The original faction heir of Scotland, still sitting harmlessly next to my still undefended Dublin. I told you at the very beginning that they would never, ever move. I guess the Canmores are (slang term for part of the female anatomy, plural).

Now nothing left to do but wait for the Morons and the Timids to arrive.

Only now, at the end, do you understand... You will pay the price for your lack of vision.

Now, young Skywalker... you will die.

Bwahahahahaha!!!

For more info see thread:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=87236

[Hoplite7]

While it is true that the AI crusades don't desert (your explanation for using crusader exploit), the AI only uses one crusade. So you have several times their advantage by having several non deserting crusades, especially against the already lackluster AI of unpatched M2tw, as the English...

Not trying to be negative, but I think it seriously devalues the accomplishment of world conquest if you have 9 strong, free armies steamrolling across Europe. Without the crusader glitch you would be -50000 in debt...

Again sorry for being negative, but this is a discussion forum after all, and conquering the world with massive armies with zero upkeep just seems more like a race to get to every settlement by turn 58...

[Askthepizzaguy]

While it is true that the AI crusades don't desert (your explanation for using crusader exploit), the AI only uses one crusade. So you have several times their advantage by having several non deserting crusades, especially against the already lackluster AI of unpatched M2tw, as the English...

Not trying to be negative, but I think it seriously devalues the accomplishment of world conquest if you have 9 strong, free armies steamrolling across Europe. Without the crusader glitch you would be -50000 in debt...

Again sorry for being negative, but this is a discussion forum after all, and conquering the world with massive armies with zero upkeep just seems more like a race to get to every settlement by turn 58...

Indeed, that is precisely what is being attempted and accomplished by those actions.

I currently play a much more fair and difficult game, LTC on VH/VH, with multiple restrictions and house rules. See Medieval 2 Total War for Independence for more details.

The purpose of the campaign on the blitz all challenge is to roll up the map as quickly as the program allows, without modifying the game. Yes, it is exceedingly unfair for the AI factions. However, your enemy is not the AI, but time.

Time is the demon you must slay, and it is a far more worthy adversary than any computer opponent. If you doubt it, I will refer you to anyone currently accepting this challenge.

It is indeed a challenge, even if the AI is not. The difficulty comes from your own mistakes and bad planning, not from the incompetent AI.

To give the AI a fair game I encourage you to join me in my quest for Total independence!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=97557

It's much harder on the player and retains the spirit of trying to conquer the map quickly to meet conditions, but you are at a severe disadvantage as your conquests will turn rebel and not assist your empire's expansion. And all loopholes and dirty tactics are erased.

That may be more to your liking. This particular thread is about pure and simple slash and burn as quickly as conceivably possible. The achievement is not world conquest, but world conquest by turn number X.

That is the challenge, not the conquest of territory, but of time.

[Barbarian]

Nice, I am eager to try this. But in the very end I will have to be excomunicated, to beat papal states.

[Philbert]

What happens to the papacy afterwards? Obviously a new pope will be selected out of your cardinals (again) but won't he whine for you to give him a new shelter?

What would happen if you kill off all your priests (send them on boat and disband? Does that work?) Then there are no more pope candidates.

[Paradox]

That brings up an interesting point, but I don't think it's possible to disband priests.

The auto-resolve option is my only choice, as the battles are too good for my computer, so I'm just going to have to rely on numbers and weapons, no outsmarting the AI in the battles this time.

[ReiseReise]

He meant disband the boat, not the priest. I believe you get the "You cannot disband a naval unit unless the passengers can disembark!" message. But I could be wrong.

[Paradox]

I'm pretty sure you do get that message, as I've been getting at times when trying to get rid of my useless units who were remnants of a past crusade. The Papacy will never die, they cannot, there has to be a college of cardinals.

[Grog]

Hmm, couple of queries for ATPG:

1/ I see you recommend a catholic faction to accomplish the goal. I assume this is due to tighter logistics in western europe (territory density) to give an early boost to conquest coupled with easy availability of heavy infantry to push up autoresolve? I was thinking of trying this with the turks, but could see this putting me at an initial disadvantage over a catholic faction.

2/ Spies and sieging. Do spys travel at crusade stack speed when contained within a crusade stack? or is the stack limited to spy speed? Also, do you settle for taking 2 turns to take each settlement (building siege on site vs logistics/time constraint of training siege engines and lugging them about etc), or do you run spies ahead of your expansion paths to allow spyrushing of settlements?

I'm thinking of giving this a go, and am tempted to use poland or hungary for a bit of variety. (played england/france/HRE in the last few long games, so fancy a change)

[Paradox]

1.Catholic factions are better because their cities are all right by each other, while the Turks, Egyptians, and Moors often have to go through a great distance to breach a city.

2. I don't think so, the only people who obtain advantages on a crusade are the ones whom you chose to participate in, spies aren't generals.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nice, I am eager to try this. But in the very end I will have to be excomunicated, to beat papal states.

Yes, but as the sole remaining Catholic faction, you will OWN the college of cardinals. You will most likely destroy the Pope himself in the process of taking Rome, and you will elect the new Pope and he will lift the excommunication the very next turn, especially if you bribe him with tribute. He's your Pope, after all.

What happens to the papacy afterwards? Obviously a new pope will be selected out of your cardinals (again) but won't he whine for you to give him a new shelter?

What would happen if you kill off all your priests (send them on boat and disband? Does that work?) Then there are no more pope candidates.

The Papal States never die as a faction. Somewhere, there's always a boat ready to land with Papal armies on it. Even if the college of cardinals is empty.
It's not a mater of concern, as the point is to simply take his provinces.

That brings up an interesting point, but I don't think it's possible to disband priests.

The auto-resolve option is my only choice, as the battles are too good for my computer, so I'm just going to have to rely on numbers and weapons, no outsmarting the AI in the battles this time.

You can kill priests even if you can't disband the boat by attacking rebel navies and losing. But what would be the point? It's unneccessary. The Papal States never die.

He meant disband the boat, not the priest. I believe you get the "You cannot disband a naval unit unless the passengers can disembark!" message. But I could be wrong.

I think that depends on the version and mod.

I'm pretty sure you do get that message, as I've been getting at times when trying to get rid of my useless units who were remnants of a past crusade. The Papacy will never die, they cannot, there has to be a college of cardinals.

You can eliminate every single priest in the game. Therefore the college can be emptied.

Hmm, couple of queries for ATPG:

1/ I see you recommend a catholic faction to accomplish the goal. I assume this is due to tighter logistics in western europe (territory density) to give an early boost to conquest coupled with easy availability of heavy infantry to push up autoresolve? I was thinking of trying this with the turks, but could see this putting me at an initial disadvantage over a catholic faction.

2/ Spies and sieging. Do spys travel at crusade stack speed when contained within a crusade stack? or is the stack limited to spy speed? Also, do you settle for taking 2 turns to take each settlement (building siege on site vs logistics/time constraint of training siege engines and lugging them about etc), or do you run spies ahead of your expansion paths to allow spyrushing of settlements?

I'm thinking of giving this a go, and am tempted to use poland or hungary for a bit of variety. (played england/france/HRE in the last few long games, so fancy a change)

1. The point of the Catholics is the ability to crusade through excommunicated Catholics, Orthodox cities, and Muslim lands more easily. It's impossible to Jihad through Muslim lands. Also, since most of the map is Catholic, it is much easier to obtain and HOLD all provinces. Yes, the tighter city density (France/HRE/Italy/Hungary/Poland/Spain as a bloc) makes blitzing early very possible.

2. Spies, in the vanilla version 1.2, which I accomplished this feat in, do not move as fast as crusading generals. Like artillery, they slow down your armies.

Since you can quickly move to a city and seige it, take it next turn and move quickly to the next, artillery and spies are unneccessary. Totally unneccessary.

Ok OK I did use ballistas to take Paris and Rheims both in one turn with one stack. If you HAPPEN to be able to recruit a ballista, and it is near the enemy, you can use it. But honestly, your core territories are usually too far away and your armies are moving too fast to make ballista useful.

Spies are a different story. They can help you after your initial crusade, and by then, you have spies recruited. But still, I didn't use them much.

They CAN be useful to take out entire factions BEFORE the Pope excommunicates you or warns you, in a single turn. Gotta be quick!

Position your crusading stacks to take advantage of the sudden end of a crusade, when it's over, spies open gates and you wipe out an entire faction in a single turn.

Checkmate.

[Paradox]

You mean if I take over the College of Cardinals, all priests from there will be under my control and I would be able to control them around in the map?

[Csargo]

I think I'll try this a little later today.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You mean if I take over the College of Cardinals, all priests from there will be under my control and I would be able to control them around in the map?

If you are the sole remaining Catholic faction, your priests, if any, will automatically be considered for the College. That is how you own it.

You will be able to control your cardinals even after they are promoted, so yes, you can control their fate.

[Paradox]

You can control the pope too right? Because I've been seeing Pope Gregory on the campaign map right now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You can control the pope too right? Because I've been seeing Pope Gregory on the campaign map right now.

The Pope is always of the faction Papal States. Unless you are playing as the Papal States, you cannot control the Pope directly.

The Papal States are a horde faction, which means they cannot be eliminated if their last city is taken. And if there is a priest or cardinal on the map, there will be a Pope soon.

I haven't been able to play as the pope without modding the game, and I havent destroyed the Papal States completely.

[Grog]

Ok I have started a blitz all challenge for a bit of fun.

I'm using HRE, VH/VH vanilla 1.3, long campaign.

Empire report, turn 10:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Faction: 19 territories occupied and green. Sieges on Thessalonica, Bruges and novgorod are underway for assault on turn 11. Also have stack half a day north of rebel kiev, and my prince is moving another stack around the swiss alps. King and another general are conducting inter-empire activities for a few turns to commence soon.../whistle

Crusade to Antioch is underway from turn3. Perfect relation with papal states. Loose alliance with denmark.

War with venice, Byzantines, Russia. The Poles are looking a bit frisky but I'm a prime position to multi-crush them in a turn or two.

Financially, things are looking fairly sound:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also, had a cracking battle to severely damage Russia before siegeing Novgorod:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hopefully get a few more turns done later tonight..

[Grog]

Empire report, turn 20:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

30 provinces held, but it all went a bit shaky in the 'teens. I basically expanded a bit far out and suddenly faced a five front catholic offensive whilst all my chaps were off crusading

This probably put me back quite a few turns, but heyho, down but not out. Lots of messy militia defenses for a few turns and a few heroics saw things tighten up again. Antioch fell on turn16, Pope is still bribed but now at 'untrustworthy' rep. War with 7 factions.


Empire report, turn 30:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

55 provinces held. France, Milan, Poland, Russia destroyed. Byzantines broken. 16 crusade stacks in operation on 7 fronts (3 in russia, 5 in turkey/mideast, 1 northafrica, 1 in greece, 3 in spain, 1 en-route) whilst 3 non crusade stacks finishing building for offensive on portugal/spain, british Isles and to backstab Danes. Logistics are underway to build captain led island-hopping militia to grab islands in the med.

Crusade vs Gaza launched turn26. Considering ending this earlyish if progress remains good, may need a late crusade to reach dongola and possibly finish egypt. I'll see where I am around turn 35/36...

On a sidenote, this playstyle is a lot of fun, and much harder than it looks

[Ramses II CP]

Watch out for an earthquake at Jedda, permanant movement penalty there would slow you down for just one province.

I think floods/eqs are a risk for Arguin too.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Empire report, turn 20:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

30 provinces held, but it all went a bit shaky in the 'teens. I basically expanded a bit far out and suddenly faced a five front catholic offensive whilst all my chaps were off crusading

This probably put me back quite a few turns, but heyho, down but not out. Lots of messy militia defenses for a few turns and a few heroics saw things tighten up again. Antioch fell on turn16, Pope is still bribed but now at 'untrustworthy' rep. War with 7 factions.


Empire report, turn 30:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

55 provinces held. France, Milan, Poland, Russia destroyed. Byzantines broken. 16 crusade stacks in operation on 7 fronts (3 in russia, 5 in turkey/mideast, 1 northafrica, 1 in greece, 3 in spain, 1 en-route) whilst 3 non crusade stacks finishing building for offensive on portugal/spain, british Isles and to backstab Danes. Logistics are underway to build captain led island-hopping militia to grab islands in the med.

Crusade vs Gaza launched turn26. Considering ending this earlyish if progress remains good, may need a late crusade to reach dongola and possibly finish egypt. I'll see where I am around turn 35/36...

On a sidenote, this playstyle is a lot of fun, and much harder than it looks

Yes, I always thought pure blitz warfare was very fun. But in order to do it in record time, you really must dig deep to pull off a brilliant campaign. It is not as simple as taking everything you have and attacking. There are many tactics you must use to generate forces out of thin air, keep hundreds of thousands of troops moving at no cost, deal with massive, massive debt at the end of crusades, fight on every single concievable front simultaneously, often times taking on entire empires with an undermanned and underpowered stack of mercenaries for the explicit purpose of destroying them quickly without any backup.

Advice: The sooner you can take on the British Isles, the better, Grog. And you have to conquer even that last nasty little annoying worthless province in Africa as well, Arguin. I am thinking that a crusade against either the Moors or the Egyptians is inevitable, but you have time left only to choose one, and you must make that choice well.

There are still many provinces to be taken in Africa and the middle east, and without sufficient speed and forces... you may not make it.

Redouble your efforts to take all of Africa, the middle east, and Britain.

You are close to the ideal 2 provinces for every 1 turn mark. Every turn from this point onward should average at least that many.

However, I do believe if you cannot break my record, you will come close. You seem to have successfully applied the principles and strategies that I myself have used.

Bravo! I am enjoying this campaign.

[Grog]

Empire report, turn 35:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

74 regions are now under my despicable rule, 19 provinces captured turn 30-35

Sieges are currently in place on: Gaza (2 stacks), damascus, mosul, baghdad, timbuktu, edessa. (crusade stacks)

Crusade stacks in waiting ( ): Stockholm, Inverness, Lisbon, Iraklion (2), Tunis.

Non crusade armies: stack in bruge shipping to york turn 36/37. Stack at arhus hiding in woods. mini merc ship army at oslo harbour. Stack of cheap militia and ballista south of rome 'guarding' province 108.

3 other generals rushing around the map making mischief.

Turn 36 was the mother of all bloodbaths, took me hours of hack and slay. (still have to finish it, off to do it in a mo).

Next plans are: Dump 70% of troops after gaza falls.
37-40:
Ship 2 heavyish stacks from iraklion - alexandra.

Drill master general starts timbuktu to arguin with horse only. inf to follow or be recruited at destination.

Drill master takes all horse to dongola (couldn't rent a ship in jedda, or he be halfway there already...)

Tri phase assault on british isles and scandinavia to complete by 40-41.

Scilily should fall <40.

3 stacks should seal spain by 41-42 (4 castles and 3 towns also max recruiting).

Hopefully get Cairo/rome at 45, if not crusade 3 comes active turn 46...

I learned a lot from mistakes in my first crusade and tiptoeing around catholics too much, 3 diplomats on rome and none elsewhere served me well

Anyway, I'll hopefully get this done in a day or two, then post some more stuff.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Most impressive.

At this rate it seems possible for you to smash my record. We shall see how things go!

Are you playing on VH/VH?