Expensive phalanxes not worthwhile

[duncan.gill]

Does anyone agree that buying expensive phalanx troops (vs cheap ones) is not worthwhile - even if they come head to head a cheap unit will take a long time to be wittled down by an expensive one (which provides ample opportunity for flanking). Also against non-phalanx units the cheap units are almost equally effective (provided that the wall is not penetrated).

[Bumbar]

For city garrisons, cheap ones are better, but for offensive army cutting down losses during battles means you can advance faster without waiting for reinforcements. So, if you have the economy to afford them, better phalanxes will enable faster advance.

[stupac]

They can be expensive, but they are unstoppable tanks on the battlefield. The selucid and makedonian silver shields will often fight to the last man even if flanked, and their superior close combat and armor makes them pretty tough and more versatile. I use them frequently, but usually only 1 or 2 units to stick on the flanks in tough battles.

[QuintusSertorius]

I just had three units of not-even-full-strength reformed Makedonian phalangites seriously chew up my Roman army. They had silver chevron experience, but even so, they could have fought on til Armageddon came.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Cheap phalangites die relatively fast in comparison to high-end phalangites.

[Beefy187]

I hate fighting phalanx. This just shows how good they are.. Even if I charge couple heavy cavalry couple times they seem to last longer then other spear/sword units.

Expensive phalanx in the enemy army means prepare to have heavy casualty for me...

[duncan.gill]

Do you use phalanxes on the flanks?? I always have some heavy infantry for that role (they can't be flanked as easily as a phalanx).

For killing phalanxes I find that they following works well

1) have them run around the battle field until they are tired
2) isolate their general (who is usually cavalry mounted and so can be hit with some medium cav) and kill him reducing the morale
3) have a fear causing unit (such as naked spearmen in the army) to reduce morale further.
4) attack each phalanx unit in a piece meal fashion (so that they get hit from 2 or more sides).


That being said the Carthaginian elite phalanxes are hard in both long and short range melee combat.

[konny]

It depends on what you are doing with your phalanx. To create a solid wall of pikes on the battlefield any phalanx is sufficient, even machimoi or pantodapoi (should be minimum 4 or 5 of them in a line). They will crush any non-phalanx enemy that will attack them.

In a fight phalanx vs. phalanx the better one will win. That is, if this formation is attacked by pezhetairoi it will be routed. Even if it is attacked by about the same number of levy phalanx with only one of better quality.

A serious problem, allready mentioned, for low-end phalanx is moral. I have seen AI deuteroi phalanxes routing with full strength during a chain route. That is a problem of the AI having all units attack at maximum speed, what means that the slow phalanx often is the last to arrive on the field and will be isolated as soon as the first units start routing.

So, I would say that for the human player levy phalanx is usually enough. The AI needs better phalanx units because of its poor handeling of them. In return the player needs better pikemen as well when facing AI armies with hig-end phalanxes.

[Swordmaster]

I hate fighting phalanx. This just shows how good they are.. Even if I charge couple heavy cavalry couple times they seem to last longer then other spear/sword units.

Expensive phalanx in the enemy army means prepare to have heavy casualty for me...

Second that. I have such terrible nightmares from my 0.81a Roman campaigns against Macedon that I'm now very reluctant to cross the Adriatic.

[QuintusSertorius]

Second that. I have such terrible nightmares from my 0.81a Roman campaigns against Macedon that I'm now very reluctant to cross the Adriatic.

In 1.1 the only ones worthy of fear are these characters:

[konny]

Everyone with 7(!) experince is a serious opponent against green troops.

[QuintusSertorius]

Everyone with 7(!) experince is a serious opponent against green troops.

My own fault too, since I spawned them in some of Makedonia's settlements when they failed to recruit them, in spite of Koinon Hellenon pasting their useless armies of levy hoplites and levy Gallic spearmen. The ones I created had 3 experience already, then with the way auto-calc zings up surviving units experience...

I won in the end, but my entire fighting line had to be retired and replaced wholesale because they were that badly mauled.

[Olaf The Great]

In my experience having levy phalanxes in field battles works just as well as elite ones, however in offensive city battle(where their formation gets F-ed up and they need to fight with swords) Elite phalanxes are needed to carry the day.

One notable and technically game breaking in this sense is Pantodapoi, with their AP axes, Morale is their only real problem, and a small one if you know how to exploit it.

[Ayce]

They can be expensive, but they are unstoppable tanks on the battlefield. The selucid and makedonian silver shields will often fight to the last man even if flanked, and their superior close combat and armor makes them pretty tough and more versatile. I use them frequently, but usually only 1 or 2 units to stick on the flanks in tough battles.

You haven't met the Rhomphaiaphoroi yet, I see.

[Flying Pig]

How can you not love the elite phalanxes, you heartless fiend? The Chaionion Agema, Kleruchon Agema and Hoplitai Epilektoi are among the best-skinned units in EB, and phahlanxes definitly are some of the most killy. Hoplitai Haploi are the best militia, though, and I have only ever kept 2 units of elite pikes in a city for more than 5 turns, that's during a massive Roman seige of Alexandria as the Ptolomaioi.

[darkness_rising]

Dont forget the fact that the low end levy phalanx units tend to have low stamina compared to higher end ones. Ive found this is a disadvantage in siege battles where I rotate tired and fresh phalanxes for optimum efficiency. Takes a while longer to do this with cheaper ones due to slower stamina regen.

[Ayce]

How can you not love the elite phalanxes, you heartless fiend? The Chaionion Agema, Kleruchon Agema and Hoplitai Epilektoi are among the best-skinned units in EB, and phahlanxes definitly are some of the most killy.

Oh, I like them, but they fall like flies when pitted against AP Armored Infantry.

[Spartan198]

I use the elite troops in offensive ops (but I also make good use out of mercenary armies, as well), and lower level ones in garrisons. My only exceptions to the latter is, when playing as KH I always garrison Sparta with Spartans, and when playing as the Romani I always garrison Rome with Praetorians (when I get them).