Hold Position

[The Green Knight]

Did a search - didnt find exactkly this topic addressed. I am wondering what exactly the |hold position order does. i assumed that say in a defensive setup if you put troops on hold they would saty near to that spot and return there after a fight.

So does ordering troops on hold to attack/charge units - negate the already given hold position order? and if you rerset your troops at a different point in the battlefield and give the hold position order do they obey the first order given or the latest order?

yours in confusion

[hrvojej]

I don't have a definitive answer, but my impression is that they will return to the general starting location even after the prder to attack, but only once the routers are not longer "in range", i.e. when they would normally stop (if not on hold position).

[arekb]

yes! that question also keeps me busy in the night! Does anyone have some observation on this? Pls answer...

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[ToranagaSama]

The simple answer is NO they do not "...return there after a fight".

Or, at least, I haven't notice them to do so.

[This message has been edited by ToranagaSama (edited 10-24-2002).]

[hrvojej]

They do, but I am not exactly sure about the conditions.

[Del]

From STW I can say that hold position is a blanket order which orders a formation to move straight toward the **latest ordered position** regardless of combat friction.

If you have a unit of spearmen standing in place on hold formation, and some Feudal Sergeants come up and push them back, the Spearmen will keep moving and pushing to their original position until when and if they get back there.

If you have a unit of spearmen on hold position and order them to move forward to said spot over yonder, and they are charged by some Peasants along the way, they will continue marching toward the appointed spot, fighting along the way, until they either reach it or rout.

This is the way it worked in STW. I can only assume it works the same in MTW, though I do not own the game.

Del

[Swoosh So]

Hmm put your missles in front of your spears on hold pos, when they are attacked they move away, when the danger is gone they will move back to the starting position, also handy if you have foot units you dont want to chase the enemy once they start to rout.


Hoooooooooooowl

[kaevad]

hold posistion i sveyr useful for archers.
if you dont want them running around in skirmish mode, which can be a pain if you just to fire instead of running back a bit first.

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If he moves kill him! if he doesnt, kill him anyway! whahahaha!

[ToranagaSama]

Del, Your the Man!

Interesting thread.

[maroule]

hold : for me they don't 'return', since as they are not supposed to move in the first place. But that's maybe because I only use it in conjonction with 'hold line' (or whatever it's called, the option before 'engage at will)

[Coeur De Lion]

hold postion is i think, for example has a longbowmen unit if u put him on a hill and put him in hold postion and click on something that is out of range i dont think he will move.

but if the longbowmen is in a fight with another unit (missle fight) and the enermy unit moves uot off its range then unssally the longbow would follow but in hold formation it dont.

im not too sure if thats right but it something along those lines.

Coeur De Lion

[The Green Knight]

Thanks for the input

I should have referred to the manual p 51 which states this command means a unit "will stand itas ground at all time. when a fuight is over they will resume their places on the battlefield rather than forming up around their leader's current location. this prevents units creeping out of place in a battle line as they drive enemies back"

Great - biut I havent notice this working effectively. When is a fight over? if u r defending and push the enemy back aforcing a rout and u chase by ordering attack does this in effect cancel the hold psoition order?.

I was penalised heavily in a fight (where there loads of reinforcements coming on on both sides) when I kept redrawing myb battle lines as the defenders to the rear of where the current figthingwas taking place because i didnt want to be so far forward of the map edge from which my reinforments were coming. My army routed due "uncertain at constat retreats!!!

Surely the army gfoiven hold position orders should not be penalised simply because u want them to hold the best ground and have to withdraw them.

[hrvojej]

I am surprised that nobody else have noticed that they do in fact return. "When the battle is over" means that the routers whom they were chasing are not in range any more, either too far away or all dead. It doesn't work wonders, since it's not that easy to exterminate the entire unit or to lose sight of them (unless it's infantry chasing cavalry, which is the case where I have noticed it happening most frequently) and they don't return *exactly* to the position (usually the wrong facing), more like approximately there, but some of my units definitively do start to go back to the place where their starting position (before the attack order was issued) was.

[This message has been edited by hrvojej (edited 10-24-2002).]

[pdoan8]

The manual is correct. The term "when a fight is finished" is the key. When the enemy unit is outside of its engagement range, then it will stop chasing and return to its position. I've seen my spear/pike unit on Hold Position chasing an enemy unit (also a spear/pike type) all the way to the other side of the map and then walk back to its original position after the enemy has fled the field.

[The Green Knight]

How do i know what the "engagementr range" is and yes I have noticed some units (having chased enemy and routed them) return approximately to where they started but not exactly. also a key phrase seems to be "rather than forming up around their leader's current location." which seems to indicate that if you dont have hold psotiion on then units will return wherever the leader is.

I gues the command i realy want is "rally" (not the one we have for routed units) but a kind of recall command which would halt units and return them to a position (without a penalty)unless of course they realy were were retreating rather than regrouping. Difficult to programme or what.

[hrvojej]

By "leader" it means unit leader, not the general. And if you click "halt" they will not return to the original location, only if they lose track of the unit they were chasing.
Also, with them being in pursuit, it just takes one click to return them safely back. No way that they're going to get the constant retreat thing from that.......