Epeirotes in Arpi - how to call them?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Hi,

I want to know how I could call the Epeirotes in my Makedonian campaign. I drove them out of Hellas, and captured Taras, and they are reduced to Arpi now. They have two family members left, Pyrrhichos Aiakides, and another one not belonging to the royal family, who is currently faction leader.



Epeirotai doesn't seem fit, since all three Epeirotean tribes are under Makedonian rule.
Tarantinoi not really since they lost Taras and won't regain it.
Aiakides? Their ruler is not an Aiakides at the moment, and the fate of Pyrrhichos is quite unclear at the moment.

Has anybody an idea?

Edit: I'm at war with Rome at the moment due to a failed assassination attempt. I'll give up Taras definitely because I really really don't want to roll them up to Gallia Cisalpina at this stage of my campaign. Should I pass it to the Epeirotes? I'm forcedly at peace with them, because the Romans made them protectorate, and since I was allied to Rome at this time my 2nd Epeirote war came to an unwanted halt.

[Ibrahim]

they're the Samniti

[QuintusSertorius]

Give Taras to Epeiros. It's easier than trying to fight the Romans.

[Jolt]

Samniti Epeirotai. Samnites under Epirote leadership.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Give Taras to Epeiros. It's easier than trying to fight the Romans.

Yes, exactly, but sadly the Romaioi put Taras under siege before I could get my diplomat to the Epeirotes. You sadly can't give away settlements under siege. And so the Romans attacked it and captured it. I had only four Hoplitai Haploi there, I've sailed my real army to Aitolia a few seasons ago.

Now I'm in an alliance with the Romaioi again, one turn after they captured Taras. So no Taras for Epeiros.

[QuintusSertorius]

You can always use Force Diplomacy to take it from the Romans and give to the Epirotes.

[Maion Maroneios]

Well, I have a few propositions for you;
1) Samnitai, which is greek for Samnites. So they're basically Hellenic-ruled Samnites.
2) Italohellenes, or Italo-greeks in greek. They represent the ''free'' italic tribes ruled by the remnants of the Pyrrhic dynasty of Epeiros, seeking refuge in Megale Hellas.
3) Taras, after giving them the city itself to represent a free and again powerful city-state with Epeirotic rulers, refugees from Epeiros itself.

[keravnos]

Greeks in Italy called themselves "Italiotai". "Italoi" would be the native Italians. So, you can call them as such. The historically correct name would be to call them "Italiotai ex Apeirou", meaning "greek italians coming from Epeiros" ItaloHellenes would be those who would be a mix of peoples like the Mamertines were, Italians who wed with greek women (after disposing of their husbands, when they conquered Messana).

Similarly in Sicily, they called themselves "Sikeliotai" in contrast to "Sileloi" who would be the native sicilians (either all of them or one of the 3 native sicilian peoples). The following

Sicani or "Sikanoi" in greek transliteration,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicani

Sicels or "Sikeloi" in greek transliteration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicels

Elymians or "Elymioi" in greek transliteration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elymians

[Maion Maroneios]

Aha, ok so Italiotai would be my final proportion as well as Taras.

P.S.: Thanks for the clarification keravnos!

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Thank you keravnos.

Italiotai Apeirotai perhaps, the Epirote Italic Greeks?

P.S.: The Year in History states that the Antigonid Makedones counted their calendar from 317BC, start of the reign of Alexanders last rightful heir Alexander IV. So I conclude the year 272BC was the year 46 for the Makedones, is that right? Or did they also counted in Olympiads, or in years after the first Olympics. I guess they didn't call the year after the Eponymous Archon of Athens, right?

[Obelics]

Greeks in Italy called themselves "Italiotai". "Italoi" would be the native Italians. So, you can call them as such. The historically correct name would be to call them "Italiotai ex Apeirou", meaning "greek italians coming from Epeiros" ItaloHellenes would be those who would be a mix of peoples like the Mamertines were, Italians who wed with greek women (after disposing of their husbands, when they conquered Messana).

just for a bit of antropological fun:

this word is still used in italian, there are 2 meanings.

1) it refers to the ancient greek population of Magna Grecia.

2) the second meaning is a bit "downgrading" i dont know why, it is used to address an italian who have some ehm, lets say... italian vices... for example if i am in a sea-beach i dont know, lets say in Kroatia. And i see a pair of my connationals, who are doing the "buffons" with sun glasses, anal perizomas etc. near some local girls (while the girls are laughing under their moustaches), trying to make them understand via hand gestures (cause the classic "italiota" knows very few words of foreign languages) looking a bit ridicoulous... well, we say: "look! there are some of our italioti connationals there..." sentences like this.
Or another example, the world is used much with football related things: "here's the classic Italiota who is going to the stadium", or "on Sunday afternoon, the classic Italiota is attached with his ears to the radio, listening to the football match trasmissions" (this when football matches were trasmitted only on Sunday)

one hipothesis here can be related to the fact that the "italiota" charachter is more radicated to the south... you know that proverb a greek friend told me: "italians and greeks one face..."

here's a youtube example of a guy acting all the classical italioti's defects:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KqI...U&feature=user
i dont know even if the guy is an italian, he looks more like an italo-american...

[Maion Maroneios]

italians and greeks one face..."

Yep, Italiani Graeci una fatza una ratza or something right?

[Obelics]

yes, una faccia una razza, that told me a greek friend who studied in naples in my uni (during the Colonels dictatorships, there were a lot of greeks who came in naples to study, now they are fewer than at the times of my mother, but there are still some).
Also there is the movie: "Mediterraneo" when i heard that sentence too.

[keravnos]

Italiotai Apeirotai perhaps, the Epirote Italic Greeks?

That's great as well.

1) it refers to the ancient greek population of Magna Grecia.

It does? I didn't know that. Well, it is great to see that the original meaning has survived.
N.2 well, that is to be expected, words' meaning does change with time and "Italiotai" could mean the "simpleton" you describe.
The best example of that would be "Agathos" which meant "good natured, good in all aspects" and post the Peloponesian war meant "naive" and still does to this day.

It's all good though. A Language that evolves is a living one.

[Ayce]

just for a bit of antropological fun:

this word is still used in italian, there are 2 meanings.

1) it refers to the ancient greek population of Magna Grecia.

2) the second meaning is a bit "downgrading" i dont know why, it is used to address an italian who have some ehm, lets say... italian vices... for example if i am in a sea-beach i dont know, lets say in Kroatia. And i see a pair of my connationals, who are doing the "buffons" with sun glasses, anal perizomas etc. near some local girls (while the girls are laughing under their moustaches), trying to make them understand via hand gestures (cause the classic "italiota" knows very few words of foreign languages) looking a bit ridicoulous... well, we say: "look! there are some of our italioti connationals there..." sentences like this.
Or another example, the world is used much with football related things: "here's the classic Italiota who is going to the stadium", or "on Sunday afternoon, the classic Italiota is attached with his ears to the radio, listening to the football match trasmissions" (this when football matches were trasmitted only on Sunday)

one hipothesis here can be related to the fact that the "italiota" charachter is more radicated to the south... you know that proverb a greek friend told me: "italians and greeks one face..."

here's a youtube example of a guy acting all the classical italioti's defects:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KqI...U&feature=user
i dont know even if the guy is an italian, he looks more like an italo-american...

Like „ţăran” in Romanian, meaning both peasant and the slightly uncultured guy acting with (sometimes all) the native stereotypical defects (sometimes exaggerated), though if „Italiot” would be a Romanian construction, it would be a combination between „Italian” and „idiot” rather than an adapted word.

[Obelics]

@Keranos

well, the first meaning "the hinabitants of Magna grecia" is more a scientific meaning, i doubt the guy of the streets know it, but it is still an entry of the italian dictionary.

the second one, is a more "popular" meaning, as i sayd it is often related with footbal things etc. when you want to criticate some bad habits.

bythe way (just to not create some equivocation), the first and the second meanings are not related (the second meaning is just related to a low cultured italian). I posted it just cause i love this little strange thinks of usages and customs, folk, ethnology etc... expecially related to language, i love to know it also about to different cultures than mine. The example of Agathos was interesting too.

[Reverend Joe]

Wait a minute...

And i see a pair of my connationals, who are doing the "buffons" with sun glasses, anal perizomas etc. near some local girls (while the girls are laughing under their moustaches),

Was that a mistake, or do the Italioti just have some very strange tastes?

[Obelics]

no no eheh, that was a metaphora to say they "laugh at them"

[Reverend Joe]

Ah, okay... yeah, sometimes these things are lost in translation.

Plus, I was recently reading "The Basileus is Crazy," so I guess I still had Pyrrhos's love of bearded women in the back of my mind.

[KhaziOfKalabara]

2) the second meaning is a bit "downgrading" i dont know why, it is used to address an italian who have some ehm, lets say... italian vices... for example if i am in a sea-beach i dont know, lets say in Kroatia. And i see a pair of my connationals, who are doing the "buffons" with sun glasses, anal perizomas etc. near some local girls (while the girls are laughing under their moustaches), trying to make them understand via hand gestures (cause the classic "italiota" knows very few words of foreign languages) looking a bit ridicoulous... well, we say: "look! there are some of our italioti connationals there..." sentences like this.

I don't know what an anal perizoma is, but it sounds painful.

[Although a scholarly looking tome found via Google and thence Amazon informs me that "perizoma" is both the Greek word for Etruscan hot pants, and a type of moth. Interesting how these words survive.]

[Obelics]

I don't know what an anal perizoma is, but it sounds painful.

[Although a scholarly looking tome found via Google and thence Amazon informs me that "perizoma" is both the Greek word for Etruscan hot pants, and a type of moth. Interesting how these words survive.]

perizoma is a kind of sea bathing-costume, very subtile and thin, who is much used not only by women, but even by men on the beach. Ok i checked the english dictionary this time, the word is "Thong". In my Italiota dark side, i usually thought that the word "perizoma", was an english word too, i discovered it isn't an english word...

Lesson learned, never use some "dangerous" words if you dont know the exact english translation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thong_%28clothing%29

[QuintusSertorius]

For added confusion, in Australia a "thong" is a sandal.

[MerlinusCDXX]

For added confusion, in Australia a "thong" is a sandal.

And to confuse things even more, here in the US, "thong" refers to both a sandal (of the "flip-flop" variety) and the "perizoma", though a "perizoma" is also called a "G-string" in American English. Confused yet?
I am (and I live here).

[Maion Maroneios]

Very interesting to know these things, didn't know the perizoma was a thong, neither that thongs also means sandal in the US and Australia!

[Obelics]

now im even more confused, sandal is referred to the tree or the shoes? nono just joking i know you are refereing to the shoes

anyway in french it seems it is preferred the word "Tanga" (could be it is a transformation of the english Thong? or viceversa?), while in italian we have both words "tanga" and "perizoma" (but perizoma is more used than Tanga, in italian the word Tanga had a period of popularity during the 80' and early 90' while now i see everyone uses more the good old word "perizoma", at last it's just my impression, girls talk of perizomas not tangas, i dont hear the word "tanga" very often here), so is this word (perizoma) still used in neo-greek too? or have it some different meaning in modern greek? just curious cause it is a word of greek ethimology...

[Ayce]

Romanians use Tanga.


But what does this have to do with Epeirotes in Arpi?

[Obelics]

Romanians use Tanga.


But what does this have to do with Epeirotes in Arpi?

boh? i dont know

[Lysimachos]

Romanians use Tanga.


But what does this have to do with Epeirotes in Arpi?

Perhaps they are wearing them down at the epirotean beach club?

[Maion Maroneios]

lol

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Shame on you, hijacking my highly scientific thread...

To confuse even more, here in Germany we use Tanga and String-Tanga, which both all referring to the same thing. The word Tanga is from the Brasilian inventor of that type of cloth, who wasn't very good in orthography and wrote "tanga" instead of "targa". At least that's what I heard. Nevertheless the anglicism "String-Tanga" is slowly winning over the good old Tanga. My compatriots like it as determining as it gets. See also the idiotic word "Düsenjet" for jet-aircraft, literally meaning "Jet-Jet". We love it American over here.