Should Holocaust deniars be jailed?

[KarlXII]

Yep = same like deniars of soviet crimes and jewish crimes.

Please, don't post. I do not wish this thread to be locked.

Edit: Unless you can give me some non biased evidence of "Jewish crimes" then I will take the comment as a kind of anti Semetism, and even though I agree that the USSR had crimes, due to past reading, I will view the comment anti Russian as well

[Tribesman]

Yep = same like deniars of Polish crimes

[CountArach]

Haha Tribsey

[KarlXII]

Win, but I see where this will go, unfortunately.

[Dâriûsh]

Edit: Unless you can give me some non biased evidence of "Jewish crimes" then I will take the comment as a kind of anti Semetism

Maybe our friend meant Meyer Lansky?

[Odin]

Maybe our friend meant Meyer Lansky?

Maybe he did, but why anyone would want to shut up Krook is beyond me. He is by far one of the most entertaining backroom goers we have and should be considered for senior membership for his well thought out contributions.

[Don Corleone]

Odin, cant' believe I haven't said this before, but welcome back from the Long Dark Night we all wander into from time to time. Good to have you back. I credit my rudeness to an enduring disbelief that you were ever really gone.

I'm going the EA route and making an argument for outlawing holocaust denial (though I personally think you turn the lights on cockroaches, not stamp your feet and make them run & hide).

Our grandfathers weren't idiots. They had just witnessed one of the worst wars in mankind's history, and in absolute scale, it was the worst. But I think what scared them the absolute most was how thinking, rational people in Germany, Austria and other places could have been led to such a place (no offense to my German and Austrian friends. There were plenty of Nazis in the US in the 30's).

The violence rattled them, surely, but the ideas that had been pressed through Goebel's information machine and accepted as unassailable facts, this terrified them more than anything they had ever known. It would be as though after getting into Kabul, we learned that the Taliban had convinced the Afghans that the Sun was a death ray put in the sky by the USA, and therefore they only came out at night.

I think the legal minds of the time reacted rather strongly to this phenomenon. They wanted to make certain another Ministry for Public Enlightenment (Goebbel's little after-school club) could never come to pass. The laws against the Holocaust are as much laws against Gleichschaltung as anything else. And when you look at what they were able to accomplish in 15 short years, you understand why our grandfathers had the reaction they did. It happened so quickly, so thoroughly, and so beyond the bounds of human reason, our grandfathers were terrified about propaganda and misuse of information. Laws against denying the holocaust were seen as a 'canary in the coal-mine' if you will. So I understand them. I think their time has come and gone, however.

[Odin]

Odin, cant' believe I haven't said this before, but welcome back from the Long Dark Night we all wander into from time to time. Good to have you back. I credit my rudeness to an enduring disbelief that you were ever really gone.

Thanks Don, you are still one of only a few people here that can reel me in via a PM and make me exhale.

[Sarmatian]

What everybody else said on the issue.

On a similar issue, what do you say about those guys that don't question the holocaust but the numbers? Is there a point to that? Does it make a difference whether it was 2 millions, 5 millions or 10 millions?

And is holocaust being exploited, to portray Jews as perpetual victims and give them more "manouvering space" today? Just wondering what makes Jews so special? Slavs were treated in very similar way, and in the end around 30 million Slavs was killed. Russian, Poles etc... Or the Chinese. How many of them were massacred?

I remember talking to some friends who were in Berlin as part of some student exchange organization and made a nice presentation about the city. They said that several years ago a cemetary was built that was supposed to be a memorial for all victims of the WW2. But under pressure, it was changed to exclusively Jewish memorial, although one already exists in Berlin.

Bottom line, are Jewish victims put before other victims? And if they are, do you think that is ok?

P.S. Should this be a separate thread?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

On a similar issue, what do you say about those guys that don't question the holocaust but the numbers? Is there a point to that? Does it make a difference whether it was 2 millions, 5 millions or 10 millions?

Historical fact always needs questioning and confirmation, if it is done in an educated manner. It's still just as terrible no matter how many millions were killed.

And is holocaust being exploited, to portray Jews as perpetual victims and give them more "manouvering space" today?

Yes, it is. Indeed. There was an interesting incident with the DB a while back...I'll try to find a link.