My next game: Epeiros as Pergamon

[Timoleon]

Ave Quintus! I see from the screenshots that you use a lot of Classical Hoplites. I assume that they hold the center of your battleline. This surprises me a bit, knowing you constancy with historical accuracy. To my knowledge, Pergamos didn't use hoplites at all! In fact they didn't even used makedonian type phalanxes. They mainly used Galatian Mecenaries and Thureophoroi.
I will take take the initiative to propose an army, since I would like to see how your campaign goes with historically accurate armies!

Here is their battle deployment in the battle of Pergamun, 190 BC (I found it on the Internet)

Eumenes, knowing he was outnumbered, decided to anchor one flank of his army on the sea so that he could not be outflanked on both sides. He, therefore, deployed his own command, the largest, next to the sea and that of Prince Attalos to his right. Eumenes troops were drawn up in the following manner. On the left, next to the beach, were half the Tarantine cavalry and on their right 600 mercenary thureophoroi deployed facing a small area of rough ground. Next in line were half the army's bolt shooters, taken from the walls of Pergamum to swell the army, that would hopefully cause great slaughter with missiles that no shield could withstand. Extending the line to their right was a deep body of light troops comprising the Mysian javelinmen and the Cretan archers supporting them. Behind the skirmishers were the ferocious Galatian tribesmen, fierce warriors, naked apart from their gold torques, able to sweep even a Macedonian phalanx away in their charge and convinced of their invulnerability. At either end of the Galatians, still behind the psiloi were two columns of thureophoroi to be deployed when needed. Behind all of these stood the king himself with his bodyguard and to their rear a body of Xystophoroi cavalry waiting in reserve. Finally, Eumenes placed Stone Throwers at the right hand end of his part of the line. This was indeed unusual as these large engines were only usually seen at sieges. Prince Attalos extended his father's battleline from the siege engines with his mercenary thureophoroi and then his bolt shooters. Trallian slingers and the rest of the Tarantine cavalry finished off the front line. Behind the Trallians were Galatian horsemen, good troops but lacking the ferocity of their unmounted brethren, and further to the rear was the Prince with the remainder of the Xystophoroi.

And here is an Pergamene Army for the Field of Glory board game:

3 x Commanders
4 x Xystophoroi
4 x Galatian Cavalry
4 x Light Cavalry
18 x Thureophoroi
12 x Galatian Foot
6 x Cretan Archers
8 x Trallian Slingers

In EB this could be something like:
1(or 2) x FM
1 x Lonchophoroi Hippeis
1 x Heavy Galatian Cavalry
1(or 2) x Prodromoi or Light Galatian Cavalry
6 x Thureophoroi (or maybe 4 Thureophoroi and 2 Peltasts)
4 x Galatian Heavy Infantry (maybe 3 Botroas and 1 Gaesatae mercenaries)
2 x Cretan archers
3 x Iaosatae (Gallic Slingers)

Since Thureophoroi are quite unreliable in EB, you could use Thorakitai instead.
Of course, when you fight in the Crimean, you could replace your heavy cavalry with horse archers.

I hope you like my army proposal and sorry for the long post.

[QuintusSertorius]

People should never apologies for long posts!

As you've identified, Theurophoroi are rubbish, so I never bother recruiting them. Only thing is, I can't recruit Thorakitai anywhere. They're not mercs either, so that's not an option.

I've got some Gallic options in my roster from Tylis and Nikaia (mainly Celto-Hellenics, but also Iaosatae and Leuce Epos), but I can't recruit Botroas or Brihentin. I know Pergamon used a lot of mercenaries, but I'm loathe to use lots of them in my main lineup given the difficulty of reliably recruiting them. I try to simulate that with lots of regional troops - Thracian, Gallic, Asiatic and so on. I could hire more Tindanotae, though. I'll be able to recruit Kretan archers soon, and of course there's always mercenary ones avaiable.

In a lot of ways my standard army is a compromise with what I can actually recruit! I may be a little cavalry-heavy though, so perhaps I need to review that. Invaraibly I have five units with a full stack (including FMs).

[Timoleon]

Only thing is, I can't recruit Thorakitai anywhere.

I just checked thr Recruitment Viewer and, indeed, there seems that Thorakitai aren't available for Epeiros, even though they are in their roster in the EB site!!!

Maybe you could use more of Taxeis Triballoi (regional MIC 4 in Tylis and Kallatis) and Celtohellenikoi Hoplitai from Ankyra (when you decide to conquer it).

[QuintusSertorius]

I just checked thr Recruitment Viewer and, indeed, there seems that Thorakitai aren't available for Epeiros, even though they are in their roster in the EB site!!!

Maybe you could use more of Taxeis Triballoi (regional MIC 4 in Tylis and Kallatis) and Celtohellenikoi Hoplitai from Ankyra (when you decide to conquer it).

Celto-Hellenics are the mainstay of my line, they flank the hoplites in the centre. I can recruit them in Nikaia as well as Tylis. Should I be thinking about replacing my hoplites with them instead?

I'm quite attached to the hoplites, mostly because of their brilliant morale and good armour. I'm looking forward to being able to recruit Agrianians soon.

Something to bear in mind when comparing with the Epirote roster: I can't build homeland governments in any of the regions I hold, or can expand into. Type II is my best option. Usually I go with type III initially to build up my regional barracks, then switch to Type II later. Yeah it's a bit of an exploit to retain higher-level regional barracks, but I paid for them.

[Timoleon]

Celto-Hellenics are the mainstay of my line, they flank the hoplites in the centre. I can recruit them in Nikaia as well as Tylis. Should I be thinking about replacing my hoplites with them instead?

From a historical point of view, they suit your armies better, but they are clearly inferior to classical hoplites in holding the line. Maybe you're right, classical hoplites is a compromise you are forced to make.

I'm looking forward to being able to recruit Agrianians soon.

They aren't to hold the main battle line either. They are good flankers, though. but not as good as Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi! You should really try them.

[QuintusSertorius]

I did mean Argrianians as flankers, rather than holding the line. I'll get falx-men at the same time, I remember those were painful to deal with whenever I fought the Getai in my Roman campaign. Should be useful against the later Seleukid lineup.

I might actually try a custom battle with Theurophoroi in place of the hoplites and see what happens.

[QuintusSertorius]

By 'eck, I just took Chersonesus, and it's got factional and regional barracks in place already! Don't need to do much there, even has stone walls. Now to get ready for the assault on the other one.

[QuintusSertorius]

From a historical point of view, they suit your armies better, but they are clearly inferior to classical hoplites in holding the line. Maybe you're right, classical hoplites is a compromise you are forced to make.

I've been doing some more thinking on this point, and I think you're right. Classical Hoplites aren't a compromise I'm forced to make, it's actually an easy way out of recruiting something more like an accurate army, and having a tougher time in battles.

I'm thinking phase out the hoplites as anything more than garrison troops, and use Keltohellenikoi for my main line in their place. Then the hated Theurophoroi on their flanks. Add some Peltastai, perhaps, then Kretan archers, slingers of some description, a few other bits of infantry then cavalry. Perhaps aim for less consistency and uniformity, and more regionalisation of units. I could roleplay it as a military reform taking some of the burden off the Greek citizenry.

Something like this:
4 x Keltohellenikoi
2 x Theurophoroi
1 x Galatian Tindanotae
1 x Karian Uazali

2 x Peltastai
2 x Kretan Archers
2 x Sphendenotai

2 x Hetairoi (Family members)
1 x Asian Light Cavalry
1 x Thracian Prodromoi
1 x Thracian Light Cavalry

Any ideas how to use such an army? I have to admit my tactics seem to come in two strands - either Roman-style checkerboard, or single long line. What else could I do with them?