2 greek-related questions

[Olimpian]

1.What is the correct form of 'Athenian Empire' in greek? edit:also, 'Athenian Kingdom'

2.How should I role-play the Hellenic Medium Cavalry as oposed to Greek Medium Cavalry?The latter will represent the equestrian upper-class of Athens,but I'm not quite sure about the former...Any ideas?

[Timoleon]

1. Athenian Empire = Αθηναϊκή Αυτοκρατορία (pronounced Athinaiki Aftokratoria).
Athenian Kingdom = Αθηναϊκόν Βασίλειον (pronounced Athinaikon Vassilion)

2. I don't think there is any difference, from a role-playing point of view. Actually, in the EB time frame the Athenian upper-class avoided military service as much as possible.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I'm not sure where you'd get Athenaika from; but anyways I suppose that Arche Athenaia (litt: Athenian Rule -> Empire; see Arche Seleukeia) would sound a bit better.

[Timoleon]

Now that I think of it again, probably the Athenians themselves would call it Αθηναίων Ηγεμονία (Athenaion Hegemonia - Athenians' hegemony). IIRC, this is what they actually called the fifth-century Delian League.
Democratic Athenian citizens would hate words like empire, kingdom, etc.

[Maion Maroneios]

Yep, it should be more like Arche Athenaia.

[Flying Pig]

No, Arche (empire) is not quite accurate to a democratic power. I like playing noble cavalry as units which you could make only fight easy battles and retreat a lot, as they don't really want to get killed. The peasants probably would have always had the vanguard operations and the suicidal attacks.

[keravnos]

ΑΘΗΝΑΙΚΗ ΣΥΜΜΑΧΙΑ, transliterated as Athenaike symmachia, meaning Athenian alliance.

Don't forget that the Delian alliance started out as an alliance between members before becoming a Hegemony in manner and what is known historically as "First Athenian hegemony", which ended with Athens losing the Peloponnesian war.

If you are going to roleplay as Athens, the best way to call the "non athenians" greeks is to call them as Athenians would..."Metoikoi", aka those who lived in Athens, payed taxes, fought in its wars, but were never allowed into the political system, or would never vote. Others, not in Athens would be called "Symmachoi" or Allies.

Hellenic Medium Cavalry as oposed to Greek Medium Cavalry?The latter will represent the equestrian upper-class of Athens,

Hellenic Medium cavalry..."Symmachoi hippeis" (medium isn't a designation that would be used)
Greek Medium Cavalry..."Athenaioi hippeis"

[Timoleon]

ΑΘΗΝΑΙΚΗ ΣΥΜΜΑΧΙΑ, transliterated as Athenaike symmachia, meaning Athenian alliance.

or ΑΘΗΝΑΙΚΗ ΞΥΜΜΑΧΙΑ, as Thucydides used to write it.
But Thucydides and the other contemporary writers never user the term ΑΘΗΝΑΙΚΟΣ/ΑΘΗΝΑΙΚΗ. It was always ΑΘΗΝΑΙΩΝ (Athenians') since they considered everything to belong to the citizens, not to the city.
If Olimpian is thinking about an KH AAR, then the term ΑΘΗΝΑΙΩΝ ΣΥΜΜΑΧΙΑ (Atheneon symmachia) is more appropriate.

[Olimpian]

I would love to try an AAR for my intended Athenian campaign,but I lack the time ... ...exams coming up.Maybe in the near future...I just want to change the name of the faction from KH to something related to Athens for now.Probably gonna strat as 'Athenai' since I only have the city in the early years,and then change to 'Athenaike Symmachia'.And since I like to role-play a lot, I'm trying to find different uses and stories for Greek and Hellenic Medium Cavalry.Thanks for the responses guys

[Tellos Athenaios]

Now that I think of it again, probably the Athenians themselves would call it Αθηναίων Ηγεμονία (Athenaion Hegemonia - Athenians' hegemony). IIRC, this is what they actually called the fifth-century Delian League.
Democratic Athenian citizens would hate words like empire, kingdom, etc.

Well there's to say that Arche is first and foremost 'rule'; it means Empire in a 'manner of speaking' sense. But yes, the Athenaioi would likely refer to their role of first violin in the Greek (when they have it again) world as Hegemonia (leadership).

[Victor1234]

Well, if we can ask....I have a Greek-related question as well.

What are those standards that some Hellenic units carry, called, that have Pezoi written on them and what's their story?

[Jolt]

Pezoi = Infantry
Psiloi = Archery & Co.
(guessing)Hippeis = Cavalry(/guessing)

[Maion Maroneios]

That's right. For example, Pezhetairoi derives from the words Pezos = Foot Soldier and Hetairos = Companion. So in english it translates as Foot Companions.

[Victor1234]

Ah, thanks, but I was referring to the banner/standard itself. I didn't play enough of vanilla RTW to remember if the Hellenic units carried these banners and if the EB team just left them in, or if they were used historically and that's why the mod team added them in.

One would think that if they were used historically, it'd be something similar to the Roman eagles (rally point, represents unit, etc), but any expert commentary would be appreciated.

[keravnos]

Ah, thanks, but I was referring to the banner/standard itself. I didn't play enough of vanilla RTW to remember if the Hellenic units carried these banners and if the EB team just left them in, or if they were used historically and that's why the mod team added them in.

One would think that if they were used historically, it'd be something similar to the Roman eagles (rally point, represents unit, etc), but any expert commentary would be appreciated.

Seleukid standards which were captured in Magnesia by the Pergamene forces, among other equipment
on the right,


on the left


Greek standards as they are now, are a compromise as only one model could be used for the lot of them, hence the most basic form was chosen. In EB2 we will make things differently.

[Maion Maroneios]

Cool pics you got there, keravnos! About the greek banner, it certainly wasn't used in vanilla RTW

[Jolt]

Greek standards as they are now, are a compromise as only one model could be used for the lot of them, hence the most basic form was chosen. In EB2 we will make things differently.

I was actually thinking of creating a "Helioi" faction for EB, where every soldier was a banner bringer with the Verginian Sun on the said banner, thus the "Helioi" name. :P That would be a sight to see. ^^

[Maion Maroneios]

Lol