Perspective

[ICantSpellDawg]

What I am trying to say is that we should stop throwing them banana's. But on to perspectives.

I agree to an extent. China has no benevolent intent, but getting a large amount of people to work day in and day out, even if for peanuts, is better than having them sit in idleness. American charities, however decent hearted, have seemed to enable lethargy and idleness.

The old adage that "it is better to teach a man to fish than to give a man a fish" works exceptionally well here.

[HoreTore]

I agree to an extent. China has no benevolent intent, but getting a large amount of people to work day in and day out, even if for peanuts, is better than having them sit in idleness. American charities, however decent hearted, have seemed to enable lethargy and idleness.

The old adage that "it is better to teach a man to fish than to give a man a fish" works exceptionally well here.

Uhm....

You need to realize that "Africa" isn't one situation. A lot of different approaches are needed, from creating jobs, stimulating small businesses(like grameen phone and his cronies are doing) and emergency aid.

You seriously don't think that what a 10-year old kid dying of aids needs a job more than he needs medication, do you?

There are a lot of orphans in africa, they need to go to school and get an education, not work in a factory from the age of 7. There are also a lot of sick people, they need medications, not a job. Then finally there are those dying of hunger, they need food, and they need it fast. After that's fixed, you can start talking about creating work.

[Odin]

Uhm....

You need to realize that "Africa" isn't one situation. A lot of different approaches are needed, from creating jobs, stimulating small businesses(like grameen phone and his cronies are doing) and emergency aid.

You seriously don't think that what a 10-year old kid dying of aids needs a job more than he needs medication, do you?

There are a lot of orphans in africa, they need to go to school and get an education, not work in a factory from the age of 7. There are also a lot of sick people, they need medications, not a job. Then finally there are those dying of hunger, they need food, and they need it fast. After that's fixed, you can start talking about creating work.

Wonderful analysis HoreTore, so you going to pay for this broad approach? As much as i dislike seeing others suffer as an american I am about done with the international aid scene. We've done our bit and its led us to catastrophic foriegn policy decisions.

So here's hoping that 'perspective' reigns supreme and we allow someone else to take the lead.

So are you willing to pay more to do this HoreTore?

[Fragony]

There are a lot of orphans in africa, they need to go to school and get an education, not work in a factory from the age of 7. There are also a lot of sick people, they need medications, not a job. Then finally there are those dying of hunger, they need food, and they need it fast. After that's fixed, you can start talking about creating work.

It's kinda funny how you reason your way up starting from education, but what good is education if their is no place for that sort of talent. It's completily the other way around I think, develope the small things and the need to organise and manage will come eventually from natural talent, not a horse that can count. Just don't expect too much too soon.

edit; mods, bit of a hijack, maybe own thread?

[HoreTore]

An educated man will be better at whatever he does, and a LOT better suited for starting up something himself that creates jobs.

Besides, a child has no place in a factory whatsoever.

[Fragony]

Besides, a child has no place in a factory whatsoever.

Apparently they do, I just try to avoid buying these goods it's my personal boycot.

[Redleg]

Back in the 1990's while serving in the Army I was loading ships for the return to the states in Saudi Arabia. One day after work, me and another officer were out shopping for presents for family and girlfriends, well the call for prayer happened while we were in the store, and we went to leave. However the store next to us a GI wasn't as quick as we were to leave. And the Saudi Religous police showed up and took the store owner out and beat him in front of all of us. This woke me up to the double dealing of the Saudi government and how it related to the American Government.

Then a few years later I was sitting on a bus in Korea going from one military camp to another on the local civilian buses. Always interesting to see how people react to americans. In general I found the Korean People friendly and polite toward us. however one day the Korean Police come onto the bus looking for North Korean inflitrators or symathisers (SP). The way they determined who to pull of the bus still shocks me to this day. It seems South Koreans at the time always looked down when the police approaced them. Anyone who didnt was pulled off the bus and given intergation (sometimes right on road in front of the bus.) Another interesting prespective was when one of our trucks busted the brick wall that seperated our compound from the South Korean Infantry Battalion that was our next door neighbor. Needless to say the beatings that the South Korean Sergeants placed upon their privates was not minimized a bit.

And then one day a retire American General, one of the men cited by South Korea for saving their nation during the active phase of the Korean War, arrived in Soeul. I have never seen a single individual given such respect by a nation. And I still remember the smiling grandmother that always shook our hands and said thankyou. Interesting country South Korea.

Now then there was the discussion with an Iraqi Armor officer that my platoon captured during Desert Storm and the information about how his soldiers were treated by him and his nation.

Makes me understand why a free society - even with all its problems- is always better then anyother form.

[SwordsMaster]

Uhm....

You need to realize that "Africa" isn't one situation. A lot of different approaches are needed, from creating jobs, stimulating small businesses(like grameen phone and his cronies are doing) and emergency aid.

You seriously don't think that what a 10-year old kid dying of aids needs a job more than he needs medication, do you?

There are a lot of orphans in africa, they need to go to school and get an education, not work in a factory from the age of 7. There are also a lot of sick people, they need medications, not a job. Then finally there are those dying of hunger, they need food, and they need it fast. After that's fixed, you can start talking about creating work.

Economically it makes no sense to give them anything for free. Local commerce and industry is only going to be stimulated when there is demand, and demand is destroyed if they receive everything for free. Who's going to buy bread if they can get it free? Who's going to sell it if there are no buyers?

What they should do is give out contracts for lower corporate taxes in key industries to allow foreign investment. Cheap manpower and foreign investment should give them a skilled labour force in as little as 10 years.

Of course the reason this isn't happening is because the rich have too much to lose if it does. Allowing foreign competition means that the owners of local companies will have to compete, and that will slash their profits, which they are ready to pay bribes for.

Until there is a good work ethic, and people can work for a salary that means more than a one-off bribe, there is no point in talking about a good economy.

Here, in Nigeria, an average policeman makes 12,000 Naira a month. That is approximately 70€. Of course he'll take bribes.