Experience

[grevj]

Just been getting back into it and I never thought about it before but started to bug me. I start with Hasati and they end becoming really experienced like a legion thats been with you a long time say, then comes along the principes and hasati become pointless sort of? I just wish there was a better way they rewarded more experienced units. I dont know much about history but i'm Sure they had there prized legions and what not. WHo knows if this makes sense jsut saying I hope on the newest one empires there is a better way to reward very experienced units. Is there any mod that does this?

[El Diablo]

I know what you mean - however a Hastati unit is like a lower form of Principe and thus will have lower upkeep. Thus I always ahve the Hastati in my front line to take the bulk of my casualties as they can more easily be retrained whereas you may have to ship principe units all that way back to your more developed cities.

The REAL pain in the proverbial is when you get the Marian reforms and can not retrain all your experinaced units at all. They effectively become like merc in that any casualties are unrecoverable.

BTW I know of no mods that will help with this sorry...

ED

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Welcome to the .Org grevj
I see what you mean - in the past I've managed to gain gold chevroned Hastatii which were getting close to the statistic power of the Trarii (although essentially Trarii are a totally different unit in purpose and functionality).

In M:TW, and the older games, soldiers were prevented from getting too many experience points through their power being neutralised by any units added through re-training or merging. If they couldn't be retrained, they eventually were reduced to a very small band of highly elite troops which of set the problem of then being more powerful than any units supposedly superior to them. Although merging units can have this effect, retraining doesn't in R:TW. In your case scenario it also isn't helped by the very small statistical difference between Principles and Hastati.

Historically, I think the Romans had a sort of promotion - your wealth and experience dictated your position in the force. A typical soilder started out as a Velite or Hastati and then worked his way up the ranks until he eventually became a veteran Triarii. I think that's how it works, but don't quote me on it.



BTW, mods cannot touch on this sort of issue - it's sadly hardcoded, meaning that changing it is not (legally) possible. Sorry

[grevj]

sweet thanks for the replies....
thats sad i always think of you know Marcus Julii who has all the experienced Hasati in Iberia you know all his experienced hardened troops.
I guess i got it from watching the series Rome (tv series) might not be accurate but they were saying how the 13th legion or something was strong compared to the rest.
Oh well I dont even know how they would put it in the next one.. but I would like to see it maybe.. maybe so you oculd upgrade them to Principes or something.
Thanks guys.

[professorspatula]

It's true the game doesn't really reward experienced troops or upgrade them to a higher status as perhaps would have been the case in real life, but for that reason I used to add a bit of roleplay to my RTW campaigns. I wouldn't retrain depleted units so as to instantly add new experienced troops to replace the casualties; instead I'd merge existing units, thus ensuring that the unit consists of actual veterans of multiple battles. This meant not upgrading armour and weaponry unless the unit was at full strength (or very close to it). Once a unit had reached silver chevron status, I'd reward the battle hardened unit by removing it from front row duties, placing it on the second line where typically stronger/superior units would be. So an experienced Hastati unit can in many cases take the place of a Principe unit on the second row, in effect earning it a promotion in status. Of course it still retains the characteristics of a Hastati unit, but you start to become attached to it. Should the Hastati unit reach gold chevron experience, you know the unit will have been a veteran of countless battles and deserves to be spared and used as solely as an elite unit (much like the Triarii). Finally once the Marian reforms take place, the old veteran units finally become phased out and sent to secure regions where they live out their retirement, heeding the call of arms only to protect their homelands when required.

So whilst the game doesn't automatically upgrade experienced units to another type etc, you can always come up with your own ways to reward your brave troops. It would be a nice feature, if in future TW type games, some troops had their own unique upgrade tree paths, a bit like in Mount & Blade, whereby a peasant can gain experience and be promoted (depending on the existing facilities) to various troops types, eg: archer/spearman). Obviously some paths, like those of nobility, would be closed to those troops.


(PS: Those handy with the console commands could actually use the create_unit command to create a new unit of Principes say, and disband a nearby veteran Hastati unit, thus manually creating an upgraded unit. Though that method is a bit slow and open to abuse.)

[Quirinus]

I know what you mean - however a Hastati unit is like a lower form of Principe and thus will have lower upkeep.

That's not exactly true, principes have the exact same upkeep (170 dn.) as hastati, IIRC.

Thus I always ahve the Hastati in my front line to take the bulk of my casualties as they can more easily be retrained whereas you may have to ship principe units all that way back to your more developed cities.

Yeah, that's what I do too. Though as the game goes on I gradually phase out the hastati with principes. I like to pretend that it's basically my hastati growing more experienced and older throughout the course of my campaigns (and are thus promoted), and that younger men are replacing them in my existing hastati units.

The REAL pain in the proverbial is when you get the Marian reforms and can not retrain all your experinaced units at all. They effectively become like merc in that any casualties are unrecoverable.

Yeah! That's especially a bitch right in the middle of civil war, when you've gained enough of an edge over your rival Roman faction with experience, and the Marian Reforms negate that.