Why are Theurophoroi so weak?

[chenkai11]

I consider Theurophoroi as medium infantry in my Epeiros Army. I always deploy them in the right flank to hold any enemy flankers and protecting my center phalanx. At the same time they serve as flankers too. But indeed, in holding the line they are weaker compare to classical hoplites, and their flanking attack is weaker than other heavy infantry.

Summary is they are all around medium infantry.

[Olaf The Great]

Well the way I use them is as "Line infantry" but only if I'm fighting certain enemies.


Lets say I'm fighting against vast hordes of unarmored levies, I use them and the Thorakitai in the first 2 lines to obliterate them before they even get close. If I'm fighting against a more decently equipped enemy I use the Thorakitai in the first line, if I'm fighting heavily armed and armored enemies I use the hoplites(whichever type I have...) in the front line, and conserve the Javelins for later use.

Peltastai are awesome, able to perform most roles reasonably well.

[QuintusSertorius]

Peltastai are awesome, able to perform most roles reasonably well.

They most certainly are. You've got a skirmisher who can also perform admirably as medium infantry. I opened the Unit Compare and put them up against a number of comparable units. Both Camillian and Polybian hastati, Thrakian peltasts and Karian warbands. I would have thrown in Bruttian pezoi, but they don't seem to be on there.

Against the hastati, they compare pretty well against the Camillian ones, not surprising given how cheap the early hastati are. Not as good with the sword (by two points), but it's a better sword otherwise besides mass (slight advantage to the hastati) they're on par. More, but lighter javelins with a longer range. Polybian ones have better armour and morale, and an equally good sword, so the advantage vanishes.

Against the Thrakian peltast, higher skill, but their weapon isn't as lethal. Thrakians are slightly better with their javelins.

Uazali I think are a good comparison because again sword-armed medium-ish infantry. Almost as good skirmishers, lots of them, slightly better skill and slightly better defense overall. Not bad hastati-a-likes, though they don't have the morale of the later ones.

Get peltasts into a blacksmith and their weapon and armour bump up a grade. Get them some experience and weapon skill and defense skill, along with morale do too. Which puts them solidly into medium infantry range. Couple of chevrons and they're equal to Polybian hastati, yet available to almost everyone and not very expensive either.

Compared to Theurophoroi? The spearmen have better skill; though with the -4 vs other infantry that drops to a single point. Same lethality. Spearmen have 3 points more armour and a little more mass. Peltasts have more, longer-ranged javelins. Equal in all other respects.

EDIT: I've decided I need to give Theurophoroi a proper go, especially since historically the faction I'm playing liked them. Plus if they are weak then it'll make my battles harder. Not as line troops, mind, but to take the place of Keltohellenikoi as people flanking the centre. I'm going to ditch the classical hoplites for Keltohellenikoi instead. Not as tough or dependable.

[Apgad]

I opened the Unit Compare and put them up against a number of comparable units.

What is this "Unit Compare"? I know what it sounds like, but where can I get it?

[QuintusSertorius]

What is this "Unit Compare"? I know what it sounds like, but where can I get it?

It's one of the add-ons, the others of which are the TrivialScript and the Recruitment Viewer, that come with 1.1.

[Apgad]

It's one of the add-ons, the others of which are the TrivialScript and the Recruitment Viewer, that come with 1.1.

OK, thanks, I can see it now. I'm getting problems with IE stopping it from running scripts or ActiveX controls. I've had a play around with security settings but am having no luck. Does anyone know what I have to allow to get it to run properly?

[Tellos Athenaios]

OK, thanks, I can see it now. I'm getting problems with IE stopping it from running scripts or ActiveX controls. I've had a play around with security settings but am having no luck. Does anyone know what I have to allow to get it to run properly?

When it asks "do you want to allow this site to run ActiveX content" or something, click "yes/ok". Something flashy about the address bar.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Thureophoroi are not weak. They just ate up Klerouchon Phalanxes and Klerouchon Agema, together with Galathraikes and Keltohellenikoi. They are good at throwing javelins, and they are also decent in holding the line. Did you ever try to charge head-on at a full strength Thureophoroi unit with Hetairoi? Hetairoi are pretty much the best heavy cavalry unit of the mediterranean, and they won't manage this task.

Peltasts are indeed awesome, especially Thraikian. In my recent assault on Pergamon one breach in the wall was defended by two depleted units of Peltastai, one normal and one Thraikian. I've sent forward Pezhetairoi with swords and off-guard-mode, and they got decimated by 50%. Then I've sent forth two units of Hoplitai, supported by javelin-cavalry throwing from the outside. One unit of Hoplitai lost 20%, the other one 50%.

[Arutima]

Thureoiphoroi are not supposed to be the ones holding the line, they are , like their description indicate, a middle ground between peltastai and hoplitai.

in any of my successor armies, i usually use 2 Thureoiphoroi and two peltastai, each guarding the flank, behind the Thorakitai or classical hoplites guarding my phalangite's flank.

and one unit of cavalry behind all of this, on each flanks, and you get pretty solid flanking units