Let's talk about battle formations

[V.T. Marvin]

Just without the wildmen... I have nothing against male nakedness, but I just don't like using them... rather use some Anatolian hillmen or the like for fun. (fun>efficiency hehe)

I would avoid them too, that is why I have suggested using galatian swordsmen instead (to keep the gallic flavour of that contingent).

Anyway, thanks for your appreciation!

OMG!!! 200th post!

[QuintusSertorius]

One of the things I was trying to do was reduce (yes reduce!) the number of Greek troops in the army. Reports of Pergamene battles I've seen suggest they used a lot of regional/mercenary troops, and weren't much into phalanxes or hoplites (so no Classical or Levy Hoplites - they're my garrison men). Keltohellenikoi are my Gallic compromise as "Galatian" men with Greek training.

I don't have Galatia, so I can't recruit Gaeroas or Kluddolon (well I can in Tylis, but that's a long way away). Can't recruit Vollotrix at all. There are some mercenary options, but I'm trying to keep that component down because of the difficulty in replacing them. Quite a few of my regional choices are doubly available as mercs (Keltohellenikoi, Thureophoroi, Kretan Archers, Thrakian Prodromoi and Thrakian Hippeis etc). I think it is about time I got some Curepos in there.

In another note, I tried out something broadly like the composition above, and it worked reasonably well.

Maybe, to take your point VT Martin, about smaller, more challenging armies, I could do something like this:

3 x Keltohellenikoi
2 x Thureophoroi
1 x Karian warband
1 x Galatian Tindanotae

1 x Sphendenotai/Iaosatae
1 x Kretan archer
1 x Peltastai

2 x FM
1 x Asiatic Hippakontistai
1 x Thracian Hippeis/Curepos

That's a 14-unit stack, rather than a 19-unit one, and less cavalry.

[V.T. Marvin]

Sorry Quintus, I did not realized that you do not own Gallatia yet and do not know much about Attalid Kingdom either. I have got your point. And I do very much like your new army composition scheme! Hope it will prove worth on the battlefield too.Good luck!

[Timoleon]

Maybe, to take your point VT Martin, about smaller, more challenging armies, I could do something like this:

3 x Keltohellenikoi
2 x Thureophoroi
1 x Karian warband
1 x Galatian Tindanotae

1 x Sphendenotai/Iaosatae
1 x Kretan archer
1 x Peltastai

2 x FM
1 x Asiatic Hippakontistai
1 x Thracian Hippeis/Curepos

That's a 14-unit stack, rather than a 19-unit one, and less cavalry.

I'm really looking forward to see how this "reduced" stack will do against a heavy 20-unit Seleucid Army. I guess there will be an AAR in your other thread. Good luck.

[QuintusSertorius]

Taking on board some comments from before, I'm thinking of making a minor change to composition - changing one of the Keltohellenikoi for Thorakitai, then making the right side of my army (from the Thorakitai in the centre) Hellenes and the left side non-Hellenes. The younger FM gets to be the guy in charge of the allied forces.

[QuintusSertorius]

Taking on board some comments from before, I'm thinking of making a minor change to composition - changing one of the Keltohellenikoi for Thorakitai, then making the right side of my army (from the Thorakitai in the centre) Hellenes and the left side non-Hellenes. The younger FM gets to be the guy in charge of the allied forces.

Been doing some more thinking on this, and I don't think the Thorakitai fit. They're supposed to be a progression on the Thureophoroi, and thus a replacement for them later on. I wonder if it's also a bit too mobile- and precusor-heavy. Considering a mix thus:

3 x Classical Hoplites
1 x Thureophoroi
1 x Keltohellenikoi
1 x Karian Warband/Tindanotae/Gallic Swordsmen
1 x Peltastai (deployed as line troops)

1 x Sphendenotai/Iaosatae
1 x Kretan archer
1 x Thracian Peltastai

2 x FM
1 x Asiatic Hippakontistai
1 x Thracian Hippeis/Curepos

A 14-unit stack with a mix. Hoplites in the centre, Thureophoroi and Peltastai on the right, Keltohellenikoi and another on the left. Slingers and Thracian Peltasts out front, archers behind, FMs and cavalry on the two wings.

Considering whether I should reduce the number of hoplites to two for a shorter frontage and smaller stack.

[rotten]

Seriously, don't use Tindanotae, or Gaestae for that matter, unless you want to butcher the AI's army without any problems. If you want naked shock infantry uirodusios will do enough damage.