Regarding phoenicians and greeks

[Olimpian]

How did the greeks see the phoenicians?Did the greeks under Karthaginian rule cooperate, or did they try to become independent at every oportunity?Did they consider the phoenicians barbarians?
On the other hand, how did the Karthaginians treat the greeks?Did they try to subjugate them?Did they respect their culture?(I know they copied some military aspects from them)

[Timoleon]

Did they consider the phoenicians barbarians?

Classical Greeks considered everyone who didn't speak Greek a barbarian!
The mainland Greeks considered Phoenicians as their merchant rivals. According to a myth, the city of Thebes was founded by Phoenicians, so maybe Thebans had a more positive view of them.
The Greeks who lived in Sicily where fighting Carthage for centuries and the Carthaginians where rather cruel conquerors (of course in ancient world there where few "kind" conquerors). In 406 BC they sacked the city of Akragas (modern Agrigento), 16000 residents were slaughtered and 5000 sold as slaves.
There where certain Greek tyrants (such as Iketes of Leontinoi) that cooperated with them and used their power to prevail against their Greek enemies and many Greek mercenaries who served under the Carthaginians, but in most cases Sicilian Greeks and Carthaginians where bitter enemies.

[Vorian]

Classical Greeks considered everyone who didn't speak Greek a barbarian!
The mainland Greeks considered Phoenicians as their merchant rivals. According to a myth, the city of Thebes was founded by Phoenicians, so maybe Thebans had a more positive view of them.
The Greeks who lived in Sicily where fighting Carthage for centuries and the Carthaginians where rather cruel conquerors (of course in ancient world there where few "kind" conquerors). In 406 BC they sacked the city of Akragas (modern Agrigento), 16000 residents were slaughtered and 5000 sold as slaves.
There where certain Greek tyrants (such as Iketes of Leontinoi) that cooperated with them and used their power to prevail against their Greek enemies and many Greek mercenaries who served under the Carthaginians, but in most cases Sicilian Greeks and Carthaginians where bitter enemies.

First of all barbarian just meant foreigner in Greek. Classical Greeks called Persia and barbarians but admired their level of civilisation and their massive buildings like Egyptians who they also called barbarians. The word got negative connotations after Greeks reached their peak and their culture truly surpassed their neighbors.

Imo, they regarded Phoenicians as their rivals at sea and the Carthies as the 'western Persians' people that tried to destroy hellenism in the West. They feared them less though since they had defeated them many times.


PS: Thebes and other cities were most likely Phoenician colonies during the very archaic years, only to be conquered by Greeks and settled. Thebes was one of them according to this theory.

[Timoleon]

PS: Thebes and other cities were most likely Phoenician colonies during the very archaic years, only to be conquered by Greeks and settled. Thebes was one of them according to this theory.

No this isn't true. Before the Archaic period, there was the Mycenaean civilization in the area of Greece. The Mycenaeans where Greeks and all the heroes of Homer are from this age. Before them, there was the Minoan civilization, centered in Crete. There was no such thing as Phoenician colonization of Greece.

[Vorian]

No this isn't true. Before the Archaic period, there was the Mycenaean civilization in the area of Greece. The Mycenaeans where Greeks and all the heroes of Homer are from this age. Before them, there was the Minoan civilization, centered in Crete. There was no such thing as Phoenician colonization of Greece.

Of course there were Myceneans. I said I have read a theory that Phoenicians (and Egyptians) colonised some islands and shores of western Greece in really, really ancient times causing all those myths of heroes coming from those areas. (Pelopas, Kadmos etc)

[/Bean\]

Of course thats possible, but then human life developed in Africa and spread from there (according to the most widely accepted scientific theory today), so humans probably did come from the area now known as Egypt to get to Greece eventually, but that doesnt make them 'Egyptians' as such...just the hunter gatherer nomads, who settled in Greece after the Ice Age

[Jolt]

No this isn't true. Before the Archaic period, there was the Mycenaean civilization in the area of Greece. The Mycenaeans where Greeks and all the heroes of Homer are from this age. Before them, there was the Minoan civilization, centered in Crete. There was no such thing as Phoenician colonization of Greece.

There are also theories about Phoenician/Minoan colonization of the Iberian Peninsula that date as far as into the Calcolithic. It was in that era that monumentalized settlements began appearing in regions which were rich in mineral deposits, leading many historians to think that even by that age, the Phoenicians/Minoans were already establishing colonies in the Peninsula. So it wouldn't be that farfetched to believe that the Phoenicians settled in some Greek lands.