[Epeiros/Pergamon AAR] Philetairos' Gift

[General Appo]

Nice going. Just a thought, if you really are to recreate Lysimachos empire then you´ll have to eventually take Pontos starting regions, right? Maybe you can move them somewhere else.

[QuintusSertorius]

I always re-check and uncheck to make sure the box is definitely unchecked. Sometimes it's unchecked but the engine still thinks it's checked (e.g. if you clicked away to view enemy troops and return).

Ah, that's what I did before that battle, I unchecked it, then had a look at the enemy army, then started without making sure it was still unchecked.

Nice going. Just a thought, if you really are to recreate Lysimachos empire then you´ll have to eventually take Pontos starting regions, right? Maybe you can move them somewhere else.

I'm very torn here, when I'm straddling this line between historicity and alternate history. I don't want to nerf Pontos, because I want them to be able to grow into a power to content with in the future. But I also don't want to be constantly harrassed by them, nor have them be too powerful too soon.

[Tyrfingr]

Leave my precious Pontos alone! :D

[QuintusSertorius]

Leave my precious Pontos alone! :D

Well I was never going to destroy them, just a question of where they are and how big they're allowed to be.

[QuintusSertorius]

Third Seleukid War, 214BC

Peace with the Seleukid empire was even shorter than the previous ceasefire; a mere five years before battle lines were drawn once more. Amantieus had a new policy of fortifying the pass through the Tauros mountains, with the men stationed there expected to hold long enough for the army to relieve them.

Patron Byllideus, left in command of the Pergamene army, responded to an attack on the fort. The Seleukid force outnumbered his own, but his veterans were confident of seeing the enemy off.



He set up on the edge of the forest, hiding some of his troops.



The skirmishers traded missiles for a time.



Then Byllides ordered the advance.



The right was attacked.



Looping around, Byllideus charged to the rear of the Seleukid left. Before his men got bogged down in melee, he pulled them out again.



The Seleukid line appeared to hesitate. Perhaps the trees were giving the pikemen trouble maneuvering.



Byllideus charged once more, shattering a group of Parthians.



He then routed the other flanking unit.



Working along the line, a native phalanx was next.



The enemy general, leading the cavalry, charged.



Some in the centre broke.



Soon a general rout was in progress.



Some regulars fought on for a time, the last remaining resistance.



But their stand was futile.



Editorial Note



That has to have been one of the most disappointing battles I've ever fought. It had all the makings of a decent fight, which was then ruined by the AI's total lack of anything resembling intelligence or even a basic grasp of tactics.

They started out alright, lining everyone up right. Then they broke up their phalanx line and marched individual units out to fight me peacemeal. What the hell? How hard is it to maintain a line, and march the whole thing as one?

Then to cap it all, their general suicide-charged my line about halfway through, getting routed and running away. Leaving their already poor morale because it was captain-led in the toilet.

[QuintusSertorius]

212BC:



War in Spain, Rome are gearing up for something. The war in Italy didn't last long, two years and the Romans had disposed of everything there. A stack I transported to Sicily has vanished. I give up on trying to make a proper war of it. Only positive there is they haven't gone to war with the Arveni to recover Cisalpine Gaul yet, though it'll probably be soon.

Baktria are annoying me again. Now they're trying to steamroller Parthia, which I won't have. Just re-took Marakanda after I took it off them.

Aedui are losing in Gaul, I'm of half a mind to let them get defeated there, although then they might get too active in Galatia.

[||Lz3||]

perhaps you should try darth's formation minimod , I'm using it and it really improves AI battle
tactics, their phalanxes actually fight in line

EDIT: um I have a suggestion/idea what if you place these tags before/after your screenshots ["spoil"] "screenshot here" ["/spoil"]
(without the ")
that might reduce the loading time for full pages of screenshots , and make it easier to scroll to the latest update

[QuintusSertorius]

I'll give DarthMod a try; it used to be a permanent fixture of RTR which I played much of.

I appreciate that all the images can give people's bandwidth an issue, but I don't like trying to review what I've posted and having to keep clicking on stuff to open and close them. That's why I keep it now to one update per post, so we get to a next page quicker. No more single posts with 50+ images in them.

[Swordmaster]

I'll give DarthMod a try; it used to be a permanent fixture of RTR which I played much of.

I appreciate that all the images can give people's bandwidth an issue, but I don't like trying to review what I've posted and having to keep clicking on stuff to open and close them. That's why I keep it now to one update per post, so we get to a next page quicker. No more single posts with 50+ images in them.

Well, people with limited bandwith know that picture-heavy AARs such as Quintus' and mine may give trouble. I suggest having one tab with the loading page and do something else in another while you wait. Including all images in spoiler tabs is as annoying as is using thumbnails you have to click to see the image.

[Tyrfingr]

I think you should let the Aedui get defeated in Gaul, rename them as Galatia and let them ravage the Anatolia.

[QuintusSertorius]

A Pyrrhic Victory in Phrygia, 211BC

In response to another Seleukid invasion, Patron Byllideus was once more put in command of the army. While not an imaginative general, he was solid and unlikely to do anything rash. He brought a young officer as his subordinate. The Syrian force was well-led and outnumbered the Pergamenes.



The Seleukids had sited themselves in a strong position on a hilltop. Byllideus gave the order to advance, determined to dislodge them.



They climbed into a hailstorm of slingshot.



The Seleukid centre appeared to ripple with nervousness.



A mass of Seleukid cavalry, backed up by infantry immediately tried to turn the Pergamene left.



Byllideus dealt with a similar, much weaker attempt on the right.



The enemy general, Phrygikou, was in amongst the heavy fighting on the left.



The Seleukid line began to march away.



The Pergamene officer commanding the left was routed.



Byllideus took the bold decision to bend his right and centre to counter the Seleukid withdrawal.



The Gallic cavalry fled the chaos of the earlier skirmish, climbing the hill where they met the Asiatic cavalry. Seleukid light cavalry came in hot pursuit.



Another brief cavalry skirmish erupted at the top of the hill. The arrival of Phrygikou forced the Pergamenes to withdraw.



Pergamene skirmishers were sent across to try and stabilise the situation on the left.



Byllideus moved to join his remaining cavalry on the hilltop.



The enveloping movement on the right continued.



A charge from the Syrian light cavalry scattered the Mysian javelineers.



Fighting in the centre was fierce, and now Byllideus and the cavalry were able to charge to the rear of the Seleukid phalanxes.



Phrygikou pulled away from the fighting front, having lost a number of his bodyguard.



Fighting in the centre continued as the Pergamene left flank was routed.



Phrygikou charged right through the Pergamene front, catching up with some Galatian slingers behind the Pergamene line.



Byllideus' repeated charged finally began to have an impact, routing a native phalanx.



A second one followed shortly after.



Phrygikou was now all alone, even though he'd routed the slingers he was far from safe. Just above him, obscured by the trees came Byllideus and his entire surviving cavalry.



The Seleukid general died on the lance of one of Byllideus' bodyguards.



The effect on those units able to see the general's death was immediate.



Then panic spread out to the others, and soon most of the army were in flight.



Byllideus had won the day, but at great cost. It had been a close-run thing, which could easily have gone to the Seleukids.



He marched his weary and battered army back towards Ipsos, where they would be resupplied and drafts of replacements fill in the losses.

Editorial Note



I have to express my continuing disappointment with the limitations of the AI in the RTW engine. This might look like it was a good battle, but it wasn't. I even set it up to make a decent fight of it.

Firstly, I grabbed an FM-led Seleukid stack that didn't have many depleted units in it. I then gave it an actual line, adding three units of native phalangites, which balanced out the two each they already had of native and kleruchoi ones. I gave them cavalry where they had none, and filled it out into a full stack.

Secondly, I reduced the quality of my own force. I switched out the veteran peltastai for some not-as-experienced akontistai. I switched the veteran sphendenotai for some newly-recruited mercenary Iaosatae. I switched a veteran unit of Asian cavalry for a freshly-raised one. I only added an inexperienced family member with one of the smaller bodyguards of those I have.

But it was only a hard fight because it was on yet another bloody hill (with added bonus forest!), they outnumbered me, and I deliberately played it offensively. Sure they tried to turn my flank, and almost did my left, but their centre just milled around in circles, two phalanx blocks doing nothing for most of the battle but marching backwards and forwards. After some initial clever use of their cavalry, then then reverted to type and frontally charged some spearmen. That's how their general ended up with no bodyguard, and their lonchophoroi got slaughtered having driven off my second family member earlier on.

What we had was a stalemate broken only by the death of their general. Early casualties were entirely because they had slingers in an elevated position raining death down on my advancing troops. Then it was a straight fight of attrition, one which in spite of their phalanxes I was better able to weather with my more experienced troops. Plus they wasted their cavalry.

Well, people with limited bandwith know that picture-heavy AARs such as Quintus' and mine may give trouble. I suggest having one tab with the loading page and do something else in another while you wait. Including all images in spoiler tabs is as annoying as is using thumbnails you have to click to see the image.

Indeed, I've got no plans to change the format.

I think you should let the Aedui get defeated in Gaul, rename them as Galatia and let them ravage the Anatolia.

Then that's another source of annoyance right on my border. More interesting, perhaps, but not if fighting the Aedui there results in them being easier for Pontos to pick off. I'll think about it, may be more viable than trying to stem their losing position in Gaul.

[QuintusSertorius]

210BC:



Sowing a little more chaos in Italy, with the defection of Taras. Qarthdast took Rhegion themselves. That should distract Rome for a bit, while they also fight in Spain. Aedui seem to have had a recovery, though I have transported one of their FMs to Galatia just in case.

With the ease I keep winning battles, maybe I need a re-think about the centre of my line? Something less reliable than those tough Celto-Hellenics? Problem is the only information I've got on a historical Pergamene army is from the Battle of Pergamon, which was a specific army raised for a specific event - a Seleukid invasion amid defecting allies. The only defining things I know about Pergamon was that they were a Hellenistic Successor State, and that they weren't big on phalanxes or elephants, using a lot of mercenaries. Possibly also heavy on thureophoroi.

Should I be thinking of hiring Gallic botroas en masse? There's no way I could get enough Galatian Tindanotae together for an army, they don't even appear often enough to replace losses.

[QuintusSertorius]

Regime change in Kappadokia, 208BC

Patron Byllideus was still acting as commander of Pergamon's army, and was told to help change the balance of power in Kappadokia. The native people had been under the Seleukid bootheel for some time, and a faction in Mazaka proposed allying themselves with Hayasdan. Willing to help anyone who was the enemy of the Syrian empire, the Basilieu Amantieus lent Pergamene aid to the movement in the form of military intervention.

However other parties in Mazaka with a vested interest in continued Seleukid occupation had alerted the garrison commander. He dispatched a large part of the garrison to stop the Pergamenes before they reached Kappadokia.



Surprise was not on their side, and Byllideus was ready for them. He took a strong position on the heights and let the Seleukids come to him. The battle was a brief affair, with little mercy shown to fleeing Seleukids.



The actions of the garrison had merely made Byllideus' job of investing Mazaka that much easier. However, the march to Mazaka was hindered by the general suddenly succumbing to illness, which prevented the army moving for a time. Men feared the general might even die. He recovered enough to be moved, and the Pergamenes laid siege to Mazaka.

The much-depleted garrison didn't put up much of a fight, and surrendered. Government was passed over to the pro-Hayasdan faction and the Pergamenes, true to their word, left.

Editorial Note

Another instance of silly AI behaviour, which wasn't worth a battle report. Once again their centre really didn't engage properly.

I think I've really hit those mid-game blues where you don't really know where to go next without making a complete break from how you've been playing. Perhaps with the gift of Mazaka to Hayasdan my wars with the Seleukids will be over. Or maybe I need to launch one last raid to cause them some real pain before peace?

May also be time to think about Kyrene and more generally warring with the Ptolemies, which I've avoided for a long time. Possibly Makedonia for a bit, since they've suddenly got their act together and nearly wiped out KH.

Perhaps I should be thinking about a war with the Sauromatae for some variety, however what I don't want to do is make Hayasdan's northward progress even easier. War with the Saka? Get a general with good logistical skill and send him far east? Or perhaps Baktria, since they're constantly annoying me by taking Parthian lands?

Really is halfway now, I'm 65 years in with about 75-ish to go. Certainly is harder to maintain your energy without a grand plan.

[burn_again]

I think I've really hit those mid-game blues where you don't really know where to go next without making a complete break from how you've been playing.

That's why I have several campaigns running in parallel most of the time. You sometimes need a break from fighting the same battles every turn. If you play something completely different for a while, you can come back and enjoy it again.

Having the plan to create a huge empire is of course easier as you expand constantly and get to fight different enemies at different places all the time.
I find it very hard to restrict myself to a limited expansion, after I while I tend to loose patience, blitz the enemy and then I regret it ;-).

[QuintusSertorius]

That's why I have several campaigns running in parallel most of the time. You sometimes need a break from fighting the same battles every turn. If you play something completely different for a while, you can come back and enjoy it again.

Having the plan to create a huge empire is of course easier as you expand constantly and get to fight different enemies at different places all the time.
I find it very hard to restrict myself to a limited expansion, after I while I tend to loose patience, blitz the enemy and then I regret it ;-).

I don't normally play multiple games, because I find it distracting. And I've changed some stuff, like Epeiros to Pergamon. Plus I'm already having bandwidth issues with Photobucket.

On the hand I might have a go at an Arverni-as-Galatia game, and move Epeiros to Pergamon anyway, then see what happens. Make it my "alternate history" game where I won't even bother trying to control the AI factions after I've migrated Epeiros.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

All I'm seeing is little images that say bandwidth exceeded.

[QuintusSertorius]

All I'm seeing is little images that say bandwidth exceeded.

Damn! I thought deleting the images for my old game would get around that.

My AAR has been too popular for the amount of bandwidth Photobucket want to give me for free.

EDIT: But my monthly limit resets on the 12th (ie in a couple of days) so it'll all be back. Perhaps I should open another account to spread the load.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

You could use a different host. I use ImageShack and don't seem to have any limits...

[Reverend Joe]

Yeah, stick to Imageshack and do the organizing on your computer.

[QuintusSertorius]

Funny thing is, I signed up an Imageshack account, but there's all this nonsense about "credits" I need to earn to use their bulk uploader. Which I can also buy, conveniently enough. Not sure I like the look of it.

[Reverend Joe]

Imageshack account? You shouldn't need an account to upload images on imageshack.

[QuintusSertorius]

Imageshack account? You shouldn't need an account to upload images on imageshack.

Is there an alternative on there to uploading images one at a time? That's not an ideal solution for me, even if they give me unlimited bandwidth.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Oh, it's an issue of bulk uploading. That makes sense.

I always upload my pictures one at a time. I've tried bulk uploads twice only to have them fail half way through and give me nothing, so I don't even try anymore.

I'll catch up on your AAR tommorrow when the pictures are back.

[QuintusSertorius]

Images are back up, and with just one AAR going now, I shouldn't have bandwidth issues again. Last month I had three active threads at once, mirrored on TWC as well which unsurprisingly used a lot. My brief foray into a Galatian game has actually rekindled my enthusiasm for this game, I want to get it finished.

I think I need to launch another deep raid on the Seleukids, possibly reaching Seleukia or Babylon to hurt them good before peace. Probably about time I fought Makedonia as well. Still not decided on how to deal with the Sauromatae - I don't want to weaken them so they're even easier for Hayasdan to steamroller. Maybe I should ally with them and send some horse archer armies to fight Hayasdan?

[Swordmaster]

One more remark, though, you can bulk upload your images to ImageShack if you have the toolbar installed. FYI.

[QuintusSertorius]

206BC:



Gearing up for a brief war with Makedonia, who as you can see have suddenly romped across southern Greece. Tabbed at the side is the stack I created, only the FM and reformed phalanx (far too early for them) were there originally. The units you can't see are one of akontistai and one of sphendenotai. I think that's a balanced force. I'm just hoping the AI is capable of holding a line with all those phalangites.

Weird thing I spotted, which I put my cursor over is the bribed Roman FM who's now with KH. They swapped diplomats a while back too.

The Romans are slowly winning against Qarthadast in Spain, though they haven't completely kicked them out of Italy yet.

Aedui have had a full-on revival in Gaul, they're now about equal to the Arverni. I resorted to the extreme measure of transporting all of Baktria's armies to the Horn of Africa. Getting a bit sick of FDing provinces away from them, hoping Pahlava can retake Marakanda on their own.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Interesting stuff. I'm still amazed at how much you do to control the AI expansion and how much you hold back on your own expansion.

About Baktria... What standing do they have with Saka? In my AAR, they are best friends with Saka and I was thinking of giving Baktria to Saka and letting Baktria take India, creating the Indo-Greeks and forcing them to either fight Seleukeia or sit and be quiet.

[QuintusSertorius]

The Makedonian War 206BC

Relations between Pergamon and Makedonia had steadily worsened as the latter's war in Greece progressed. Desparate pleas for aid were sent to Pergamon, and while Amantieus was keen to stay out of the dangerous politics of Hellas, his position on Makedonia's eastern border guaranteed they would be drawn in somehow. Fearing that same acquisitive urge for new lands that drove them in others, Makedonia sent an army to put pressure on Pegamon to make the "right" choice.

But Pergamon wasn't a strife-riven city-state easily cowed by a show of force. The Basilieu ordered the commander of the northern army to demonstrate against the Makedonians and remind them just who they were dealing with.

Kreskention Genuaios, along with young Lykkaostas Larruos brought their well-drilled army into Makedonia proper, forcing the Antigonid army to rush out to meet them in response. After all they were in Makedonia's heartland, a foreign army insulting their ability to defend their people. The Makedonians had numbers on their side, and home advantage.



The launched into attack, marching against a Pergamene army which had thinned it's ranks to extend the frontage of the line.





Larruous, commanding the left, was the first to spot the enemy commander's charge.



Iolkios went for the thureophoroi covering the left flank.



The uneven ground caused the Makedonian centre to lose cohesion.



Larruos moved out to range behind the Makedonian line.



Meanwhile Iolkios was behind the Pergamene line, running off some Gallic slingers.



Some Thracian skirmishers charged in support of the Gauls.



One of them killed Iolkios with his wicked blade.



The effect was immediate on some.



Even so, most of the centre held.



Those on the left flank moved to envelop the centre.



This was copied on the right.



The flanking movement on the left bore fruit.



Letting the Makedonians flee, the thureophoroi moved on to the rear of another phalanx.



They collapsed in turn.



The arrival of Thrakian elites in their midst routed even the veteran phalanx at the centre of the Makedonian line.



Soon it was a domino effect of routing men unnerving those near to them.



The last units broke together, men fleeing in every direction.



Little mercy was shown to them.



A great victory had been wrought.




Editorial Note



Not much of a battle, to be honest, once again suicidal general and failure to do the simplest thing and maintain a line. Is the AI just completely incompetent when it comes to handling phalanxes?

They had numerical advantage which they failed to use. Cavalry which they charged into the front of formed spearmen and allowed to be killed in melee. Skirmishers who wasted their ammunition on my heavily-armoured line troops instead of my skirmishers.

Changing to DarthMod doesn't seem to have made any difference at all.

Interesting stuff. I'm still amazed at how much you do to control the AI expansion and how much you hold back on your own expansion.

About Baktria... What standing do they have with Saka? In my AAR, they are best friends with Saka and I was thinking of giving Baktria to Saka and letting Baktria take India, creating the Indo-Greeks and forcing them to either fight Seleukeia or sit and be quiet.

I'm trying where possible to have a roleplaying justification for expansion, and besides not over-extend myself. Plus I'm already approaching the limits of the Thracian Kingdom in Anatolia. Not particularly wanting to drive out the Gauls or Pontos, nor expose myself once again to pointless invasions by the Seleukids, my options are a bit limited.

I'm actually doing a lot less messing with the AI factions than I did in my Roman game. It's mainly focused on stopping Baktria than anything else. Saka are their protectorate right now, and they were steamrollering Pahlava. The latter seem to be having a hard time, even with the odd FD gift. Pahlava did besiege Baktra for a bit, but then gave up. Pulling the Saka down that way sounds like a good idea, I've got the Indo-Greek kingdom in mind for Baktria.

[Reverend Joe]

Quintus.

We all now the AI sucks. Quit bitching about it.

As a matter of fact, your complaints about the AI are kinda killing my interest in this AAR.

Suck it up.

[QuintusSertorius]

Quintus.

We all now the AI sucks. Quit bitching about it.

As a matter of fact, your complaints about the AI are kinda killing my interest in this AAR.

Suck it up.

Well unfortunately the poorness of the AI is killing my interest in continuing this AAR. Becomes a bit of a mockery to report on the battles when I'm forever making up reasons as to why the AI is behaving stupidly, especially as to why the generals keep killing themselves.

Otherwise I might as well go back to summary-level reports on the battles making up a narrative of what happened in between start and finish.