best faction to turtle with?

**G^2** · 07-01-2008, 18:42

@ Old Geezer,

Generally, turtling is when one plays defensively and focuses on technology and using diplomacy instead of battling. Thus, a turtle would not attack any faction but generally would attack nearby rebels to gain a small empire. Once consolidated, the turtle would then look to its defenses and use diplomacy to stay out of conflicts. Also, the turtle needs to play a high chivalry game to keep their reputation up.

Personally, if I were purely turtling I would not go on crusades and would not attack enemy provinces except rebel. However, I never play my games like that but generally find them more enjoyable when I strike a balance. I prefer slow advances and dreadful generals.

Just my opinion.

**Archpedant** · 07-02-2008, 08:29

One important thing is to ignore most missions - almost every settlement your council wants you to conquer will eventually embroil you in a war with somebody else who wants it (Durazzo in particular which is perhaps the most worthless starting settlement on the whole map but strangely attractive to neighbours) and the rewards offered are almost never worth the hassle of conquering and defending the target (2,500 florins, 3 or 4 'best' units that you can recruit yourself if you really need).

Similarly instantly obeying the Pope means endless wars with everyone he falls out with - faced by a demand to blockade or break alliances I always wait it out and in most cases the faction will reconcile before the time limit expires.

Crusades are another matter - I tend to put all my out of date and surplus units on a boat under my oldest general and set off just before the time limit expires - then if he doesn't die en route, or the settlement isn't taken by someone else, you then starve it out on arrival and give it to the Pope or sell it to the highest bidder (the former owner will often pay you handsomely for it back and a ceasefire) after sacking and dismantling if in spite of everything you do manage to take it.

Such tactics are incidentally not that unhistorical - many more kings and nobles took the cross than ever went on crusade and their are several examples of crusades getting diverted (4th) or ending in bloodless negotiation (Frederick II).

Alternatively send a young general who needs the personality boosts and bring him back afterwards.

**shinderhizzle84** · 07-05-2008, 20:18

yea i'd do sicily but taken all those rebel muslim provinces, for me, at least, is too much work :D Yes, i AM that lazy ;) No, but seriously. Denmark is another good choice for me, they are one of my favs, but pretty much right from the beginning of the game i always find myself being attacked by either the poles, the hre, the french, and sometimes (actually, more like "usually") i find myself being attacked my more than one of these factions all at the same time. england, again, i like....but too little variety of cavalry. i made a turks campaign and called a jihad on constantinople and am doing pretty good.....i like jihads :D

my only problem with the turks is their location (for the mongols and timurids.) I suck against the two big horde factions and would like to be able to have a bit more time to amass armies to prepare against the mongol threat instead of having them at my welcome mat from their 1st turn on the campaign map. I will try doing sicily, it shouldn't be THAT hard. if i find it is strictly aganst my laziness constitution then i will just have to sick to the brits. keep all the suggestions coming guys! Great help so far!

**Flavius Merobaudes** · 07-05-2008, 22:14

I'd recommend Spain. Unite the Iberian peninsula under one banner quickly, then consolidate in a secure position. Spanish late era units are superb, so it's actually worth prolonging the campaign. And of course they are far away from the hordes...

**shinderhizzle84** · 07-05-2008, 23:02

i do love spain, but their early game is much too fast paced for me. I was just doing sicily until about turn 50, when i randomly went deep into debt in one turn (wtf???). lol, i had like, 9000 florins one turn and then the next i had -1032 or something like that lol...weird...

**G^2** · 07-06-2008, 23:22

@ shinderhizzle84

Things to consider for drop in income.

1)Did someone declare war on you? If so you lost trade right with that faction.

2)Did you recently create a large army or fleet? Perhaps your income can't support the upkeep for it. Also, fleets are increadably expensive to maintain.

3)Did you construct an expernsive building? This can also cause a trade deficet (sp?) for a turn or two.

4)Sometimes you have bad harvests which can fluctuate your income, also trade lanes can change for example Marselle could have constructed a port redirecting trade in Genoa from Naples.

My guess is someone blocked one of your ports for one turn and thus you have lost trade rights with them. Check in the diplomacy scroll and see if your at war with anyone.

**shinderhizzle84** · 07-07-2008, 00:29

yea that's got to be it: the stupid hre randomly blockaded naples. the funny thing is that i don't ever really remember ever granting trade rights with them, so.....w/e i will try to make a ceasefire or something, or at least get some trade rights with the milanese and venitians (they are both filthy rich, like, 50 cent rich :D) then hopefully i will be able to continue producing norman knights (who, btw, i must say, freaking rock!!!)

still people, don't stop giving me suggesstions just because i've found a good faction! By all means, please keep them coming!!

**TheLastPrivate** · 07-19-2008, 13:26

Originally Posted by shinderhizzle84

i do love spain, but their early game is much too fast paced for me. I was just doing sicily until about turn 50, when i randomly went deep into debt in one turn (wtf???). lol, i had like, 9000 florins one turn and then the next i had -1032 or something like that lol...weird...

That's probably not caused by a single origin but make sure that the rebels/enemies are not blocking your trade roads as well. Enemy army (especially rebels) blocking road to harbor is fatal to income.

**Ibn-Khaldun** · 07-19-2008, 20:37

Originally Posted by TheLastPrivate

That's probably not caused by a single origin but make sure that the rebels/enemies are not blocking your trade roads as well. Enemy army (especially rebels) blocking road to harbor is fatal to income.

This could be caused by plague though ...
In my Spanish campaign a long time ago the plague took my about -30k in dept

That happened within just 3 turns if I remember correctly...
And that time I was fighting against almost everyone

I managed to balance the income so after the plague went away (It took more than 20 turns to get rid of it because of a single French spy who traveled between my towns

) I had the one turns income somewhere around 50-60k

To balance the income I had to disband most of my armies though

EDIT: My 400th post!!!!!