The Greek Cities
Well im not really into the Greeks, but i do have a question for those who are. How the hell are the Greeks supposed to conquer anything? Phalanxes can only be used in defence (i found out the hard way) and peasants are no good. Im not sure i would storm a wall with loads of peasants...
So how to he Greeks actually be aggresive? I can only seem to use them in defence.
Re: The Greek Cities
I've always found that The Greeks fight on the offence best in regimented formations - typically a straight line which marches towards the enemy until it comes into contact. A couple of reserve units can often deal with cavalry when combined with cavalry of your own.
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Re: The Greek Cities
You can always check the guide for them ..
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=36871
a lot of good ideas and suggestions ..
also .. I remember someone posting a link to a webpage where someone conquered the 50 provinces wih the greek cities with only 38 turns ..
here is the link for that ...
http://www.geocities.com/AMD_4EVER/Rome/main.html
Hope this helps!
Re: The Greek Cities
i have a quick question. how do you defeat the phalanx pikemen whith hoplites?! the longer pikes of phlanaxes means that the hoplites cant even get close enough to the pikemen.and by the time they get cose enough they've already lost like a quarter of their men. someone plz help me
Re: The Greek Cities
Well, you could make a distraction with other troop, charging that troop to the phalanx, and then surprise with the Hoplites.
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Re: The Greek Cities
You have to beat them through flanking. Use the hoplites to keep them occupied at the front, and send cavalry to the rear to deal with their backs to prevent them from turning around. This has the capacity to decimate them or even result in a chain route.Originally Posted by salemty
Another tactic you could use involves the usage of missile units, which pikemen are extreemly vulnerable to due to their low defense statistics. Fire arrows at them prior to the inital skirmish and, if possible, send them behind the pikemen to fire at them from there. This, as well as causing more damage due to the attack being in the flank, also reduces levels of/the effects of freindly fire upon your own troops when in contact with them.
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Re: The Greek Cities
My Greek campaign sucked, not that I wasn't able to conquer anything, but the frustration of using solely the Phalanx really hit me really hard. My army was made of round about 15 Armoured hoplites and generals bodyguard. All the other cavalry units are rubbish and despite the fact that I still win all my battles it's just so boring. No tactics involved, every battle just deploy the same formation. Line them up in a straight line and wait for the dumb AI to charge you, or the other way round. At the end of the battle there's no way for me to finish off the survivers because of a lack of cavalry and the hoplites can barely run. I never got really far with the Greeks because of this. Macedon and Seleucid are much more enjoyable to play than the Greeks.
Re: The Greek Cities
well, if you dont like fightin with the greek just auto-resolve the battle
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Re: The Greek Cities
Doesn't work for me, I prefer to fight it personally. Apart from against annoying rebels.well, if you dont like fightin with the greek just auto-resolve the battle
Re: The Greek Cities
hmmmmmmm, well you can also fight with caverly
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Re: The Greek Cities
The greek cavalry is not that good .. you can chase routers or use them against enemy missile troops but against heavier troops they suck
The only worthy thing that the greeks have are their armoured hoplites...
and just like Quintus.J.Cicero said .. fighting with them gets boring very fast ..
The Greek Cities are interesting only in the beginning ...
Re: The Greek Cities
The Greek cavalry roster sucks to the Max. Apart from their generals' bodyguards everyone else are just crap, even though other exprienced players can make use of them I just thinks they're worthless, supremely weak in melee without other attributes. They are only good for chasing routers and sometimes even get overpowered by enemy missile troops. Aaarrrrggg!!!
Re: The Greek Cities
The only other cavalry unit that is worthy having in the army is the sarmatian mercenary cavalry unit. They are the only heavy cavalry unit available beside the generals bodyguards. Off course IF you manage to get them then you would have hard time to retrain them
Re: The Greek Cities
All i say is if you know how to use the phalanx be The Greek Cities. The greek cavalry is somewhat good i find like their militia cavarly and their missile units like the Heavy Peltasts show they not all worthless.
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Re: The Greek Cities
Greece has the strongest unit in the game - spartan hoplites. Use them without phalanx and they can still beat almost any infantry troop one-on-one (not sure about those über urbans? or was that urban übers?).
Armored hoplites are very strong too - especially against non-phalanx infantry and cav. Use the militia cavalrys speed to chase routers and tease the opponent.
Use the mercenaries to make your armies better. Cretan archers can rain death on any opponent and thracian mercenaries are very nice flankers (samnites in italy). Bastarnae and sarmatian cav/horse archers are just icing on the cake.
it's true that fighting phalanx pikemen are a b****. So take macedon out asap - and you'll mostly be facing militia hoplites. Else you have to be smart and attack from the rear or side.
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Re: The Greek Cities
Ave, salemty!
Allow me a couple of (partial) solutions: 1. try to outflank the phallanges. I assume that you're playing with XGM or something similar. Hoplites are a little more mobile, a little faster, etc., than phallanges. 2. If you have them behind your hoplites, use archers to pepper the enemy formation BEFORE until during contact. These 2 answers are partial, and you should use them with another tactic to help you gain the upper hand. Of course, needless to say, the morale and experience of your troops should be even more help. And what I have here are merely 2 of the still many other ways to get you your upper hand. But still, expect some casualties among your troops--hoplites vs. phallanges is a messy, bloody affair! I'd prefer to fire at the enemy from a distance with slingers, archers (with fire arrows) and militia cavalry riding in Cant. circles.
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Re: The Greek Cities
How about disable your hoplites from Phalanx formation and quickly flank the Phalanx pikemen. I've never tried this but every time when I play Macedon with a one-on-one fight between the Hoplite and Phalanx pikemen it seems to be an even match. The long pike attribute doesn't seems to make a great differece at all.
Re: The Greek Cities
D: No! The Greek Cities is right up there with Parthia and maybe Scythia in terms of performing very badly in auto-resolve. Even lining your army up, marching them up to the enemy line and doing nothing else yields vastly different results from auto-resolve. This is more apparent earlier on because of militia hoplites, and the Greek hoplites to an extent. The armoured hoplites fare much better, but there's still a noticable gap in casualties between auto-resolve and playing the battles yourself.well, if you dont like fightin with the greek just auto-resolve the battle
My personal favourite faction is still the Greek Cities though. I just love their hoplites, their temple set and the militia cavalry (great for chasing routers!). I'm also more of an infantry guy than cavalry, so I guess I'm biased.
To me, mercenaries are absolutely essential playing as the Greek Cities-- Illyrian and Thracian mercs, as well as plain ol' barbarian mercenaries, are excellent as flank protecters and flankers.
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Re: The Greek Cities
Auto-resolving with the Greeks often have disastrous results, it seems that the AI doesn't count your phalanx ability at all, similar with horse archers that they often get slaughtered in Auto-resolve. Other certain units, such as chariots fare much better in auto-resolve.
Last edited by Quintus.JC; 05-27-2008 at 19:38.
Re: The Greek Cities
Nice to know we think alike. The Greek Cities is also my favourite faction because of their phalanx formation and sea trade in the Aegean. The phalanx unit destroys all except missile cavalry and infantry. Just that if you know how to use the phalanx in settlement and in the open you can win nearly every battle.
Last edited by Darkvicer98; 05-28-2008 at 00:40.
Cry HAVOC and let slip the dogs of War!
A brave man may fall,but he cannot yield-Latin Proverb
Arms keep peace-Latin Proverb
Re: The Greek Cities
So how is it exactly that you use a phalanx then? I can use them in defence easily, but when it comes to attacking, im hopeless. Thats why i like Thrace, they have phalanx's, but you can also rely falxmen to slaughter all in your way if your on the offensive.
Re: The Greek Cities
To use a phalanx offensively you have to march it in a line straight through the enemy line. Stop once you make contact and watch while your enemy tries to reach your troops. This is when you send your best flankers around the side to rout the enemy. I often use thracian mercs for this. If nothing else spartans are also great for it.
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Re: The Greek Cities
The phalanx can be used for defensive purposes like defending a settlement or fort but it can be used offensively to siege a settlement. The narrow streets in a settlement allow no-one to reach the phalanx and to slaughter the enemy at the same time.
However in open ground if against a big army i use a shape to defend from all sides. Like a square,pentagon or hexagon can be used by putting the phalanx's into the shape.
Cry HAVOC and let slip the dogs of War!
A brave man may fall,but he cannot yield-Latin Proverb
Arms keep peace-Latin Proverb
Re: The Greek Cities
Quite easily, but you need like at least three units to counter a strong troop.
Step 1. Line the three phalanx up facing the enemy
Step 2. When the enemy charges the middle one (this is taking a set of three)move that unit backwards.
Step 3. Fold the two units of phalanx into the flanks of the enemy unit.
Step 4. If you have any greek cavalry, charge them into the rear of the unit. They will either rout or fight to the death either way they're broken.
If you're not against just one unit (like that happens in RTW). Say an army of romans.
Step 1. Line your phalanx units up
Step 2. When the enemy attack, pause the game and give each unit a different target (easiest is the one opposite) and then if you have spares, redo the selection and give more phalanx the same target, more troops attacking results in a better chance of routing the unit earlier.
Step 3. When they start routing but parts of your army are suffering, send the ones who have routed their enemy to the help.
Step 4. Regroup your army and then march after them.
Phalanx and hoplites are awesome if chariots and horses charge straight into them.
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Re: The Greek Cities
That's what makes the Greeks boring though. Line your Phalanx in a straight line and wait for the charge. No tactics involved, do this every time and you win every time. Providing your troops don't get out-numbered/classed too much.
Re: The Greek Cities
But what if you are on the offensive, and are walking up a hill? Often i find that the enemy stands still and waits for me to attack, even if they attack me on the campaign map. Also, im not so good at orogami, how do i fold a unit?
Re: The Greek Cities
The phalanx is quite formidable, even without armour they're a strong and solid unit. Armoured Phalanx somehow felt even a bit like cheating sometimes, but not really against Roman... Oh well. They don't like missiles, though, and are slow. I always support them with archers, the Creechans are the best of course, and peltasts for flanking and to lower enemy morale. The militia cavalry are kinda weak, but they have their uses. (like those brave Arcadians...)
Against pikemen I've sometimes used a funnel or u-formation, where my regiment is lined up like normal, but with a 2 or 3 unit gap in the middle, filled with either cavalry or peltasts. Behind the phalanxes next to the gap are two more phalanxes, ready to fill the gap if nessessary. The key to using the funnel is to lure enemy centre into the gap, flank with the reserve phalanxes and pelt them with peltasts.
One risky ploy I've used is to deploy my archer in a separate wing at one flank, covered with militia cavalry. I approach the enemy with the phalanx units, close to archer range, and quickly march my archers to a 90 degree position, optionally a hill, at the enemy flank. If I can, I use some cheap unit (militia cavalry maybe, or peltasts) screening the phalanx from enemy missiles and keeping the enemy's focus in a wrong place while the archers deploy. If the enemy has a lot of cavalry, then I'm in trouble. If I manage to deploy the archers in a good position, I can take out a few of their archers before starting withering fire on the heavy hitters. Maybe a few more arrows manage to land on something else than shields now that the boys are on the flank, hm! Then it's normal phalanx tactics - move in, poke, poke, poke like Nina Williams, and if the enemy responded to the archers, they'll have turned their tails on the phalanx and are maybe even getting rounded up in an ugly clump, having had to make a 45 degree turn, and as we know, the computer isn't exactly the most effective user of formations. And lo and behold, the humble militia cavalry has a chance to do something useful, except to die to save your expensive Creechans... They'll add to the enemy's morale penalty by circling them, and finally they'll round up the routing enemy army quite effectively, and are in a pretty good position to do it too.
Sometimes it's tricky though, as the phalanxes are slow and everything else in Rome moves at the speed of light. Against pikemen and the like it's pretty easy to pull off though.
Peltasts add up to something too, and are much faster than phalanxes. They'll do a good enough job at supporting the phalanx, even dropping a few cavalry guys with those nifty (even though they're maybe a bit weak to my tastes) javelins.
What to do against those enemy archers, though? I tend to use some "speed bumps" to draw enemy fire before my phalanx engages, or out-maneuvre enemy archers with my own, like in the example above.
Phalanxes are ...nifty! not too good on walls, though, but blast enough holes with catapults or something.
It's been a while since I've played Rome, so maybe what I'm saying is bullshit, but never mind...
Re: The Greek Cities
******** they are an attacking force [personal attack removed] i have defeted the entire S.Q.U.R army with 8 units of spartan phalanxes [personal attack removed] i did i can beat any army with the one i have now.
Last edited by Omanes Alexandrapolites; 06-01-2008 at 12:59. Reason: Removed personal attack/bad language
Re: The Greek Cities
A little over the top. Don't you think? It's not appropriate to insult people.
Re: The Greek Cities
Look...Spartan, no one here said that the Greeks are a weak force. My point is that their lack of cavalry plus their superb infantry makes them a little bit ... one dimensioned. I was able to conquer all of the Italian penisular with armored Hoplites. There's no need to insult other people for it.
BTW, welcome to the org.
Last edited by Omanes Alexandrapolites; 06-01-2008 at 13:02. Reason: Removed personal attack/bad language in quote
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