Blitzmaster Challenge

[Ferret]

I might go for the Russians title just because no one else will have the patience

[Askthepizzaguy]

as a matter of fact I did a blitz run with Russia already

I only managed to get 50 provinces before I left but it was a good time. Like 30 turns.

[BananaBob]

You guys have a crazy amount of skill. What version of the game are you using? Vanilla?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vanilla 1.3, in fact.

The "semi-fixed" version of the game.

This strategy relies upon the fact that if you leave/join a crusade every turn for 10 turns, you can move in any direction without loss to desertion for 10 turns.

You must have at least one general and 7 other units in order to do so.

Also, you are allowed to reload. However, there are no other breaches of fair-play allowed in the blitzmaster challenge. If you open the console, and force victory, or move characters through cheating, or any other console actions, (besides toggle_fow I suppose because you're allowed to reload anyway... its the same thing as not having fog of war) then it's not actually a challenge.

The challenge is to see what is technically possible under normal game mechanics to do with your initial starting forces, to conquer the entire map in the most efficient and shortest way possible.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I hope the Blitzmaster Challenge isn't dead. Now that I have a new computer I will be doing some more blitz runs with factions other than the Turks.

Brave warriors, join me.

Sorry I've been absent all month... please dont close this thread just yet, o honourable moderator!

[yogol]

Silly question... Why end the Jihads/Crusades ? If you do a Jihad on a well-selected target far, far away west, can't you keep the Jihad going for alot longer then 5 turns without loosing alot of troops ? For blitzing, I was thinking about a scenrio like...

- turn 1-4 : no jihad, get like 7 or 8 cities, have Man of the Hours so you got 7-8 Generals, buy alot of cheap troops.
- turn 5 : Jihad on -say- London, let all Generals join. Move 3-4 Generals with some HA more-or-less toward London and 3-4 Generals without any troops to remote provinces (Arguin comes to mind).
- turn 20 when all Generals are in place : buy all Mercs you can and conquer all cities.

Maybe that way, with Jihad speed all the way, you'll get everywhere faster and not "loose" 10 turns without Jihad speed ?

[Askthepizzaguy]

1. waiting so long to join a jihad means wasted time. No jihad speed, and also, unit upkeep prevents new recruitment.

2. Cannot call a jihad on london so soon. It contains no Muslims, and is not a high priority target. When many catholics have been invaded or destroyed, deeper Catholics become priorities.

3. In order to get that many cities in so little time, 106 in 23 turns, you need almost 5 provinces taken every single turn. Good luck.

[Gajinah]

I started up a Turks game and had a problem with moving my forces as quickly as you did. It just didn't seem that they were able to get to any provinces in the first few turns. That's probably my inexperience with the game though as I bought it very recently and found this site even more recently. So how did you move so fast?

And what do you think about declaring a Jihad on Portugal (since I did)? I scrapped the game, but I thought that Portugal would be a good target because it would be constant westward expansion.

I assume that this method relies on sacking every town to get money and what, having every city trying to pump out cash and with little to no garrison so that you can afford mercenaries? Or do you actually waste time building units?

And I started another blitz campaign as Russia and I've taken out Poland, Hungary, and Denmark and currently in conflict with the Byzantines. I think I'm in the mid 20s turn-wise. It seems I've lost momentum though because I'm running out of funds without cheap Jihad mercenaries. And the map is so huge on that side, the only that moves halfway decently is all cavalry army.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I started up a Turks game and had a problem with moving my forces as quickly as you did. It just didn't seem that they were able to get to any provinces in the first few turns. That's probably my inexperience with the game though as I bought it very recently and found this site even more recently. So how did you move so fast?

You must first declare a jihad. Then take your generals with the most amount of troops (in your capital and in your castle next to baghdad) and recruit mercs as soon as you exit one square outside the province. Then, join the jihad and move slowly with your general only to lay seige to baghdad. Then move all your troops to join him, and build all rams and ladders seige equipment. Move your sultan towards Nicaea. Now, next turn, do the same for your northern and anatolian troops, go for Russia and Armenia.

And what do you think about declaring a Jihad on Portugal (since I did)? I scrapped the game, but I thought that Portugal would be a good target because it would be constant westward expansion.

You need that second jihad as soon as possible, but you also need to get your troops FAR advanced by the first jihad. 7 turns of jihad speed puts you in striking distance of Russia, Africa, and middle Europe.

To do it in 23 turns, you need 7 turns or so of a second jihad to finish the whole map.

You CANNOT take the entire map in one jihad. You need two, and the second one has more generals in it. Therefore you want to make that one the longest. Bout 7 turns of jihad, followed by 10 mandatory turns of no jihad, while expanding as rapidly as possible, then as few turns of jihad as necessary to conquer the map.

I assume that this method relies on sacking every town to get money and what, having every city trying to pump out cash and with little to no garrison so that you can afford mercenaries? Or do you actually waste time building units?

Every unit, EVERY unit, within striking distance of an enemy settlement before the game is over, is a help.

Hint: Units made in Baghdad on turn 15 are useless. Units made in Paris on turn 20 might have a use.

And I started another blitz campaign as Russia and I've taken out Poland, Hungary, and Denmark and currently in conflict with the Byzantines. I think I'm in the mid 20s turn-wise. It seems I've lost momentum though because I'm running out of funds without cheap Jihad mercenaries. And the map is so huge on that side, the only that moves halfway decently is all cavalry army.

Russia has no crusades and bad troops. Your best bet is to move quickly towards the center of Europe, capture all the HRe's castles and move your capital there. Dont even bother developing Russia.

Once you control central Europe, destroying Poland en route, use the HRE's castles to build a massive horse archer army, conquer France, Italy, and Hungary. Sack everyone.

[Gajinah]

Thanks for the help!

I see now why you need two Jihads, the first isn't just about territory as I had thought, but it's more about building a force of generals and placing everyone properly to finish the sweep.

With the mandatory 10 turn cooldown period for Jihad, do you think that it's possible to beat your score? Maybe have a longer initial Jihad by a few turns for more placement?

And I noticed that Russia was quite lacking rather early. I was disappointed that I couldn't join in Crusades at the least.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yes, a 22 turn victory is technically possible.

If I had one army a little bit closer to Edinburgh/Inverness and another one closer to Hamburg/Frankfurt, I could have beaten the challenge one turn sooner.

However, it IS physically impossible to do it in 21 turns. I defy anyone to prove me wrong.

[TheLastPrivate]

Wait, don't you lose troops to desertion if you leave Jihad? Or can you join the next turn to avoid that?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wait, don't you lose troops to desertion if you leave Jihad? Or can you join the next turn to avoid that?

Leave the jihad and rejoin it same turn, or rejoin it next turn.

[TheLastPrivate]

Leave the jihad and rejoin it same turn, or rejoin it next turn.

But I do have to finish the crusade/jihad in 10 turns right?

[Askthepizzaguy]

no.

as long as you have a general actively crusading, the crusade does not end. You simply cannot send any new generals on the crusade or rejoin it after 10 turns.

[Flying Pig]

Can you give us general tips for blitzing? Nine turns for a whoe campaign... how is that possible?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sure. I can tell you everything you need to know about blitzing. That's why everyone got together in a very, very official ceremony and... I declared myself to be the blitzmaster.

Where should I begin? You wonder how it is possible...

First of all, it involves the intentional and blatant abuse of the crusade mechanic, but the underlying principle of blitzing is this;

1. You mass all of your forces together in one huge, powerful stack.
2. You rely on your unquestionable superiority over the AI in both campaign management and battlefield tactics to destroy much larger forces than your own, thus smashing your opponent's defenses and sacking his cities
3. This eliminates opponents, adds to your own empire's territory, recruitment, and finances.
4. The AI does not know how to properly assault you. Even a few basic militia can hold the walls against almost any foe. Just bring lots of spearmen and archers, and any settlement can hold except against cannons/artillery, which are too slow to matter against a blitz god.
5. As your empire expands, you fund your own military through pillaging, while your opponents rely solely on taxes.
6. You never ever stop recruiting... ever. Cavalry, spears, infantry, archers, spam them all into existence and continue growing your unstoppable horde. Dont bother with spies or artillery except in rare circumstances.
7. You will go into debt, but if you continue expanding, the budget will balance.

[Warmaster Horus]

Can't spies help for settlements? If there's a chance of them opening the gates, you can win a turn of siege, thus freeing your army, thus letting you expand faster.

But spies shouldn't be relied on. Just recruited when they can.

[Askthepizzaguy]

in some versions of the game, they move fast enough to help. In others, the crusaders move too fast for them to keep up. In that case, you are 99 times out of 100 going to want troops instead of spies.

Same for mobile seige equipment. Although I have found use for ballista in France (Paris) and northern Italy, and a use for a spy with the Turks to take Constantinople one turn faster.

Also, spies can open the gates that turn, but most turns its taking you the entire movement to reach the settlement, so you cannot move on until next turn anyway, and by then, you have ladders and rams and you take the city and move on in one turn.

If you take one city per turn (approx) with an army, spies and ballista will only SLOW YOU DOWN. And they are a waste of money at that point.

[TechStrider]

Well, I certainly hope to give this a go. I have enjoyed following the thread.

A bit more on the rules:

What are the settings made at the beginning of the campaign? Both for Battle and for Campaign?
Are you doing this at default or VH / VH or ??


Are there any other settings that are either part of the 'Official Rules' or recommended?


Thanks

[Askthepizzaguy]

I play on VH/VH, but honestly it makes little difference when blitzing. The AI can't handle a full frontal assault.

Other rules?

Reloading is OK, hacking game files is not. Posting falsified screenshots is a no-no. You dont win anything by being blitzmaster, and youre just lying to yourself.

[kublikhan3]

Holy smokes, I used to think I was good at this game. ROFL, this just easily blew away my best game. Of course I never used the Jihad/Crusade cheese either, but still that was mighty impressive. I'll have to give that a try in my next game.

[Marauder]

The AI is just too slow in the beginning. They don't (usually) spam units or tech up very quick. If you want more of a challenge you would have to mod the game to give them either more starting cash or more cash per turn.

As it is, it is an insane logistical challenge. Someone with knowledge of graph theory could probably decipher the minimum turns mathmatically possible to take all the cities. Just putting that out there in case someone wants a project =)

[Ferret]

Holy , I used to think I was good at this game. ROFL, this just easily blew away my best game. Of course I never used the Jihad/Crusade cheese either, but still that was mighty impressive. I'll have to give that a try in my next game.

It might be a good idea to edit out that second word

And yeah, it can feel like you are doing amazingly well, taking over whole countries in just a few years, but that's because it's so far from real life, it would be logistically impossible to do what ATPG did, and CA would argue that gameplay comes first but I don't think this does add to gameplay, it lowers its gameplay value for me, which is why I'm turning to games like Europa Universalis, despite the lack of RTS battles.

[Freddybear]

Leave the jihad and rejoin it same turn, or rejoin it next turn.

Do you mean moving the general out of the stack and then back in again?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nope. The same button for joining a jihad or crusade, also leaves the jihad or crusade.

[maerd2003]

here is my blitz, not 106 provinces but 45 including const+jerus in 10 turns. i calculated that non of my generals can reach arguin in 10 turns so i am staring over. but since i have 45 provinces, it is not that unsuccessful.

[maerd2003]

(i am sorry, previous post was my first, i couldn't post url)

[img=https://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3282/10turns.jpg]

[Csargo]

thread necromancy...