Succession rule

[Apgad]

I'm interested to hear what rules other EB'ers use when determining succession. The default choice seems to be whoever has the highest influence when a FL dies becomes the next FH, but I find it fun to mess around a bit.

I used to use the "oldest son of the FL is the FH" rule (ie, keep it in the family), but recently have been playing around with a few others. I don't know if these were ever populer in ancient (or not-so-ancient) cultures - perhaps I could be enlightened?

I've tried the matrilinieal option (I think it's called), where whoever marries the FL's first daughter becomes the FH, and their first daughter determines the next heir etc.

In a recent Getai campaign I also tried using the "best qualified" (my choice) candidate who had a father or grand-father who had been FL, to be the next FH.

I tend to find it more entertaining to stick to hard and fast rules with succession, even if the next FH has major physical or psychological problems to overcome. I see this as part of the challenge.

Which succession rules do you use?

[Hax]

For most factions, I use the father - son system. Alas, the line of Lysimachos Argeades is now ended, so I will have to look to a close relative for succession.

[V.T. Marvin]

I would use the highest influence rating to determine heir for "republican" factions - Rome, Carthage, Koinon - and eldest son for the monarchies.

I would be hesitant to any stiff rule with tribal factions, here it would be probably a mix of boths rules taking into account which "tribe" is actually on the rise (strongest representations of influential members in powerfull positions - commanding armies, governing important provinces, etc.)

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

For me, it matters what the faction is. For Roma or Kart-Hadast, I'll just ignore the faction leader and faction heir, pretending they don't even exist, letting the computer do whatever it wants. Until the time of the Avgvstan Reforms, that is.

For a faction like the Gauls, I'll choose the best of the highest nobility.

For monarchies, I'll usually always choose the first born son of the current leader. If there is no first-born son, I'll choose the next highest living male in the family, going to leader's brother, then nephews, then uncles. In my AAR campaign, the royal line came to an end and the I (more than) roleplayed a civil war for the resulting claim to the throne.

[Ezephkiel]

I tend to use the eldest son. Whilst he's still the heir I use him as my main general, so he becomes famous and a conquerer etc. Usually the challenge comes getting them to breed. In my recent casse campaign it just wasn't happening for ages.

If the ruling family stop producing heirs, I trace it back to the next suitable heir thats blood related.

[konny]

The Romans don't have a faction leader or faction heir, nevertheless I declare a "primus inter pares" or "Frist Man in Rome", what is always the highest ranking Consular (Influence + Command + TroopMoral) and the second highest his heir. With the Karthagians I use Law + Influnce to determint this ranking.

For factions like the Sweboz and KH the faction leader and heir are only the leader of one sub-faction (here the Sweboz tribe and Sparta). The other sub-factions have their own leaders like the Cimbri, Cherusci or Athens, Rhodos etc. Due to the lack of FMs, I roleplay all these subfactions most of the times as simple father-to-son monarchies. The overall leader/general is to be found by a system of points that also includes the size of the army his sub-faction would field.

In monarchies like Makedonia I also use a system of points, but that is the "King's Favorite". The characters recive points for:

beeing close related to the king (5 for his sons, 4 for his brothers and grandsons, 3 for sons and brothers in-laws, 2 for nephews and uncles, 1 for cousins, -1 for everyone else)

+1 for fighting in a battle under the king's command, +1 for commanding a victorious battle on his own, -1 for losing a battle

having a personal character close to the king's personal character. That is the "sharp/charismatic/vital..." attributes need to be the same like the kings' (+1 for every match). For example, under a dull and uncharismatic king sharp and charismatic characters won't get far because he doesn't like those "charming clever-clever guys".

beeing good in certain key disciplines the king is good in and beeing bad in disciplines the king is bad in. For example, a king that has three command stars but a -1 value in management doesn't want to be bored with numbers by someone who has +10 management. Or, when the king has +3 farming, beeing a good farmer yourself and so able to follow the king's monolouges about growing beans in Upper Epeiros certainly helps.

+ influence, regardless if the king is good in it or not.

The highest ranking character in my Makedonian campaign is now the king's brother Demetrios with some +30 points and the lowest a Thrakian in-law of a distant cousion with -4. The king's eldest son Perseus is somewhere in the middle. But of course there is always the natural lineage beside that system and character's that are surpassed might start a revolt. To do so they need to be disloyal and have a higher value in TroopMoral than the king (otherwise the army won't follow them).

[Apgad]

Wow Konny, that sounds really complicated! Do you keep a spreadsheet?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

The highest ranking character in my Makedonian campaign is now the king's brother Demetrios with some +30 points and the lowest a Thrakian in-law of a distant cousion with -4. The king's eldest son Perseus is somewhere in the middle. But of course there is always the natural lineage beside that system and character's that are surpassed might start a revolt. To do so they need to be disloyal and have a higher value in TroopMoral than the king (otherwise the army won't follow them).

Well, you seem to have a lot of paperwork to do besides playing EB... How do you realise the surpassed characters starting a revolt?

[Irishmafia2020]

Nice Job Konny - I did not know about the revolting part...

It depends on the faction for me, usually it is the king's oldest son, or in some cases his grandson. In one campaign, as Baktria, the king and his sons did not have enough male children, and the only two grandsons of the house of Baktrios were killed in battle. This was absolutely tragic, and I was ashamed of my inability to maintain my proper succession (I tried fertility ancillaries even). I then had to look at the men who married into the family, and more importantly their ethnicity (Persians need not apply...). I decided that I would only consider Hellenes and Makedones for FH. A few years down the line, and my Last Baktrios king is in his late 80's, when one of the great granddaughters marries Alexander Baktrios... Sharp, Charismatic, Vigorous, 16 years old and a Hellen. I role play that this guy is the original king's grand Nephew, and I make him faction heir without losing the original name of my Baktrian Kings.

In My KH campaign I follow a different path. I have three great houses of nobles. The house of Sparta, The house of Rhodes, and the House of Athens. The faction leadership rotates amongst each of these houses based upon my own interpretation of intercine political rivalries. For example, when the original faction leader's son and heir (Spartiate) died, he made a deal so that his son in law would become faction leader, but after him the next faction heir would come from the Rhodes family. The Athenians were opposed to the decision and threatened revolt, but the Faction Leader bought them off by moving the capital to Athens. In the end everyone is happy (The Spartans keep leadership for another generation, Rhodes gets the next faction heir, Athens is in its proper place as leader of Greeks), but in a way that captures the inherent tensions within that particular faction. I may even eventually roleplay a civil war...

[Jolt]

I've tried the matrilinieal option (I think it's called), where whoever marries the FL's first daughter becomes the FH, and their first daughter determines the next heir etc.

The closest thing there was (AFAIK there was no such rule as "Only males can inherit but female primogeniture isn't discriminated in any way") is the Semi-Salic Primogeniture, which descendants of a female can inherit only if all her brothers, and their children are dead. Or you have the Abolute Cognatic Primogeniture, which the elder child inherits everything regardless of gender.

EDIT: Depends on the Faction. For a Monarchy, I select the Elder-most FM of the FL. For a Republic, I go with Influence. For a Barbarian Confederation, I choose the "Strongest" (Most Command Stars).

[konny]

I have a wordfile to keep track of my FM, their offices, missions etc.; as well as for economic/military issues (for example how many Hoplites have allready been recruited from Athens, and why the Boötians have so far failed to contruibute to the army - including various recruitement houserules). I update it every 20th turn (every fifth year) with the new numbers, when I also add up the trait-effects for the characters.

Well, you seem to have a lot of paperwork to do besides playing EB... How do you realise the surpassed characters starting a revolt?

I move their armies to battle and then start a coustom battle "Makedonia vs. Epeiros" with the compositon of my campaign. According to the outcome I disband units on the campaing map and kill characters or sent them to exile. It is getting more complicated when the civil war lasts longer and can't be resolved by a single battle. In this case I have to artificialy split the kingdom and its treasury/income between the two parties.

[Apgad]

Gee - who would have imagined an EBer becoming obsessed with the details of a campaign...

[konny]

Me every time. Running around and conquering the world, doing everything right is no fun. Roleplaying characters and your faction is.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

How do you kill your FMs? Iirc it's not possible, just sending them into exile would.

[Irishmafia2020]

How do you kill your FMs? Iirc it's not possible, just sending them into exile would.

Pirate hunts or very good assassins...

[Puupertti Ruma]

It is possible to kill a FM if you know his name. It is alas impossible for a script to know a characters name, but human can collect the name quite easily. It is sadly impossible to assasinate your own FM with an assassin.

The command is "kill_character <name>" without the quotes.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

It is possible to kill a FM if you know his name. It is alas impossible for a script to know a characters name, but human can collect the name quite easily. It is sadly impossible to assasinate your own FM with an assassin.

The command is "kill_character <name>" without the quotes.

Though this command only works in scripts, not in the console.

[Poulp']

It is possible to kill a FM if you know his name. It is alas impossible for a script to know a characters name, but human can collect the name quite easily. It is sadly impossible to assasinate your own FM with an assassin.

The command is "kill_character <name>" without the quotes.

pressing alt+right click, I used to retire unwanted diplomats.

[Hax]

pressing alt+right click, I used to retire unwanted diplomats.

Doesn't work on family members.

[Swordmaster]

Send them to Parthia. Success guaranteed.

[konny]

How do you kill your FMs? Iirc it's not possible, just sending them into exile would.

Depends on the location of hs exile.... If that's somewhere in the Alps or deep into enemy territory "killing" them will be very easy.

[Sygrod]

Since I am a results kind of guy, I select a young, promising lad. That way he has a long time to get influence and ancillaries. It also assures that the leader wil be leader for a long time. Ahistorical? So be it. Between 272 and 221, I have had 3 leaders die - the first one kicked the bucket early.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Depends on the location of hs exile.... If that's somewhere in the Alps or deep into enemy territory "killing" them will be very easy.

Yes OK.