Why doesn't it revolt?

[Timoleon]

Here is the situation:

I annihilated their armies and the city remained defenseless. Instead of capturing it, I sent all my spies to make it revolt. I need to make Arpi and Capua independent to create a buffer with the Romans.
My assassins destroy the happiness buildings every turn. But in vain! After 6(!) turns and with public order always below 50% the city doesn't revolt!
What am I doing wrong???

P.S: I know that after Cannae Hannibal had difficulties making the allies of Rome defect. So my case is sort of realistic!

[QuintusSertorius]

Having caused quite a few successful revolts now, I'm convinced there's some hinky business going on with multiple spies - in that more of them make revolts less likely, rather than more likely. All the successful revolts I've had were with just one spy in the settlement. I think multiple ones actually add to order and prevent revolts, rather than take it away.

Just leave the best spy in there and pull all the other ones out.

[Hooahguy]

or maybe its too close to its capital to have any effect?

[QuintusSertorius]

or maybe its too close to its capital to have any effect?

Not sure distance to capital has any effect beyond the regular modifier to order.

In my Roman game I gave Naissos to the Arverni after taking it from the Getai, then loaded it with spies to try to get them to go to war with the Getai. I had four or five spies in there for the better part of a decade, unrest kept dipping below the level that triggered revolt, yet miraculously it would never stay that way. Even after I started using assassins to sabotage the happiness buildings. It never revolted. Then my spies started dying off, and when it eventually did revolt, there was only one in there.

That's a long way away from their capital in Gaul, yet it wouldn't revolt.

[Hooahguy]

but if a town is very close to the capital, the huge amount of order that gives would cancel out the negative order effect.

[QuintusSertorius]

but if a town is very close to the capital, the huge amount of order that gives would cancel out the negative order effect.

Which is surely reflected in the number shown in the screenshot. If it's at 45%, it's at 45% regardless of where it is. Distance to capital must already have been factored in.

[Hooahguy]

oops- didnt even look at the screenie- only the # of spies.

[d'Arthez]

My guess is that for considerations of revolts, that it only considers one spy's (the first in the list) presence.

[Hegix]

129% chance of opening the gates? Those spies need to study math :)

[QuintusSertorius]

My guess is that for considerations of revolts, that it only considers one spy's (the first in the list) presence.

Allegedly the best spy has the most effect, with the others offering a much smaller "assistance" bonus. But I think the "assistance" bonus actually works backwards, making revolts less likely with multiple spies.

[Spizania]

Perhaps the developers assumed it was far easier to discover a spy ring if there is more than one spy around, a bunch of men all dressed in dark cloaks sitting in a cafe looks suspicious.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

A couple things:
After 2 or 3 spies, the rest don't really have any further effect on unrest. Also, all damaged buildings will be repaired by the AI before the unrest is calculated.

From what I've seen, it seems much more difficult to get a town to rebel if the core building is the same culture as the faction holding the town. For example, many of the AS towns in Iran are easy to get to rebel because the faction is actually Saka or Pahlav.

[Irishmafia2020]

It should revolt after two turns, if you did that on the first turn there will be riots, but not a revolt. If the Public disorder remains low for two turns, then it will (should) revolt. Also, you could occupy the city without a fight by moving your army into it, whereas a revolt will create a rebel slave army instead. Are you trying to create a rebel city?

[chenkai11]

Perhaps the developers assumed it was far easier to discover a spy ring if there is more than one spy around, a bunch of men all dressed in dark cloaks sitting in a cafe looks suspicious.

hahaha, very true

[Timoleon]

Thank you very much for the answers.

Just leave the best spy in there and pull all the other ones out.

I tried it and it didn't work. Moreover, having left only one spy increased the public order to 60%.
Quintus, were you at war with the factions that owned the cities you caused to revolt?

It should revolt after two turns, if you did that on the first turn there will be riots, but not a revolt. If the Public disorder remains low for two turns, then it will (should) revolt. Also, you could occupy the city without a fight by moving your army into it, whereas a revolt will create a rebel slave army instead. Are you trying to create a rebel city?

The screenshot is after 6 turns where the public order is always below 50% but no revolting.
Yes I'm trying to create a rebel city, to use it (and Capua) as a buffer between my conquest in south Italy and Rome.

[QuintusSertorius]

I tried it and it didn't work. Moreover, having left only one spy increased the public order to 60%.Quintus, were you at war with the factions that owned the cities you caused to revolt?

No, they were neutral in every case. Don't know if that makes any difference, though.

[Irishmafia2020]

Perhaps the problem is that the city is a Roman culture "core" city. Therefore if the city were to revolt, rather than becoming rebels they would revolt to the Romani. Since they are already Romani, they do not revolt. I think that I have heard of this before with Egypt where the starting homeland provinces will revolt almost exclusively to Egypt, and they will not become rebel...

If that is the case then your best bet to create a buffer would be to give the territory to Gauls, Epirotes, KH, or some other "minor" faction in your particular game...

[QuintusSertorius]

Even when the faction owner is the same as that which holds it, it should still be possible to make it go Rebel. I've done that to Carthaginian and Seleukid cities in the past.

[Cullhwch]

On what difficulty are you playing? The AI gets insane order bonuses on H/VH. Their cities will almost never revolt.

[Olaf The Great]

I've had my own capital revolt in BI game as alemanni, so I'm sure it's possible to revolt with cities with the same culture.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Settlements of the same culture rebelling definately do happen. It just seems that foreign cultured settlements more readily rebel for the AI.

[Timoleon]

On what difficulty are you playing? The AI gets insane order bonuses on H/VH. Their cities will almost never revolt.

I'm playing on VH, but the order bonuses must have already been added in the number shown in the screenshot (45%).

[eggthief]

But does the OP really needs to create a buffer? I've been where he is at with a Mak campaign (although I had 2 million mnai) and its honestly very easy to take all the Roman regions for him.

[QuintusSertorius]

But does the OP really needs to create a buffer? I've been where he is at with a Mak campaign (although I had 2 million mnai) and its honestly very easy to take all the Roman regions for him.

Maybe he doesn't want to just blitz the Romans? One of the reasons I don't play on VH is it's never necessary to do that just to end a war.

[Timoleon]

I've been where he is at with a Mak campaign (although I had 2 million mnai) and its honestly very easy to take all the Roman regions for him.

Exactly because it is very easy to take all the Roman regions, I don't want to do it. I want to make peace with them in order to allow them to get stronger, get into the Polybian Reforms, make themsevles a challenge for me in the future.