Surprisingly good units

[QuintusSertorius]

This is a topic that's gotten a lot of mileage on TWC which I thought I'd bring here.

What this is decidedly not about are elite units, or any other expensive and effective ones. Like pedites extraordinarii or argryraspides or the various types of assault infantry out there.

This thread is dedicated to those regular, possibly even cheap units which are surprisingly effective given how uninspiring they may seem statistically.

My top pick are Celto-Hellenic Spearmen.



Available as mercs and hire-able for Gallic and Hellenic factions, they're cheap. Yet they're pretty much equal, stats-wise to Thureophoroi and seem much better at holding a line - even against phalanx units provided it isn't for too long. Get some experience on them and their morale becomes something terrible to behold. They're the mainstay of my battle line in my Pergamon game, and they never disappoint.

Next are Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers, or Peltastai.



Again ridiculously cheap, available as mercs and recruitable by virtually anyone. Not only can they skirmish, but they make pretty reasonable medium infantry. Good armour and their sword has a high lethality (equal to a Roman gladius). Lots of javelins too and good stamina. They can hold your flanks, then move in to outflank, and still have the energy to chase down routers at the end of a battle.

The Thrakian variant are also not bad, slightly better armour and vicious AP swords, although they're not as skilled in melee.

Slingers. Bog-standard, basic slingers you get with many factions, whether Accensi, Sphendenotai or Iaosatae, they're all good.



Why? Cheap and effective against armour, meaning they cut through enemy skirmishers like nobody's business, and in the right position will even whittle down their elites or general. Get them some experience (easily done when they're killing hundreds a battle with their slings, then running down routing troops) and they become holy terrors. The Gallic variant are available as mercs to almost anyone too.

Curepos/Leuce Epos, the Gallic light cavalry.



These guys are brilliant. Available as mercs almost everywhere, and they're among the cheapest cavalry. Not only are they tireless, but they have AP lances. Meaning when you're done harrassing the enemy line, you can use them for shock charges to the rear. Don't leave them in melee, though, the slow attack time on a lance will get them slaughtered.

What units have other people discovered are very good, in spite of them being cheap and perhaps not so great on paper?

[Timoleon]

I couldn't agree more about peltasts, especially Thracians. They are the most versatile unit available IMHO.



Prodromoi cavalry are pure winners too. Their variant from Thrace are even better. They have great charge, armor piercing weapons, excellent morale and, most importantly, unmatched stamina.



Lately I've found that Ekdromoi Hoplitai are a surprisingly capable unit. They have the perfect balance between the Classical Hoplites' staying power and the mobility of Thureophoroi. They better than both in melee attack (of course Thureophoroi have javelins too), their defence is better than Thureophoroi and close to Classical Hoplites and they are 25% more numerous that both! Moreover they can be recruited in just level 2 native barracks. However they are a bit more expensive. I used them a lot to protect the flanks of the army and then outflank the enemy and chase the rooters.

[QuintusSertorius]

Definitely agree with you on the Prodromoi, I think they're better than heavy cavalry, myself. It's that speed, stamina and AP weapons combo that can't be beaten. Even in melee with other heavy cavalry they're survivable, largely because the AI is too stupid to switch to it's secondary weapon when it has a lance.

[Socy]

Dont have time nor energy () to upload a picture, but I find the Pantodapoi Phalangitai, if used correctly, to be almost as good as Pezhetaiori or Argyraspidai for holding lines whilst being alot cheaper! That is, flanks protected and supported by flankers etc. The Argyraspidai and Pezhetairoi are better though, but sometimes I question their cost vs their effectivity compared to Pantodapoi Phalangitai!

As you wrote QS, Celto-Hellenic Spearmen are awesome. Clearly one of my favoured troops considering price vs. effectivity. Peltastai aswell, pure gold. Even better are the Thracian I think, if not for anything else but for roleplay (Thracians = Original peltasts, if I'm not misstaken) Slingers are also damn lethal, simply love them. Considering the amount of damage they inflict on enemy arrmies compared to their price.. Well, they're godlike simply. Prodromoi are also ace! And I simply love the Thracian variant. Makes it able to field a Thracian army (With Makedonia/AS) including cavalry!

[machinor]

Persian Archer-Spearmen. Ideal garrison unit, good archer unit and quite capable spearmen unit if charged by skirmisher cavalry or horse archers. Easily the most versatile unit in the east and still really cheap. Gotta love 'em.

[QuintusSertorius]

Dont have time nor energy () to upload a picture, but I find the Pantodapoi Phalangitai, if used correctly, to be almost as good as Pezhetaiori or Argyraspidai for holding lines whilst being alot cheaper! That is, flanks protected and supported by flankers etc. The Argyraspidai and Pezhetairoi are better though, but sometimes I question their cost vs their effectivity compared to Pantodapoi Phalangitai!

As you wrote QS, Celto-Hellenic Spearmen are awesome. Clearly one of my favoured troops considering price vs. effectivity. Peltastai aswell, pure gold. Even better are the Thracian I think, if not for anything else but for roleplay (Thracians = Original peltasts, if I'm not misstaken) Slingers are also damn lethal, simply love them. Considering the amount of damage they inflict on enemy arrmies compared to their price.. Well, they're godlike simply. Prodromoi are also ace! And I simply love the Thracian variant. Makes it able to field a Thracian army (With Makedonia/AS) including cavalry!

I can oblige you there:



Having seen the havoc Swordmaster can wreak with them against all and sundry, I'm convinced with phalangites it's how you use them that really matters.

Another unit who qualify are the Classical Hoplites.



Everyone can recruit them, they don't cost much, and they'll hold a line - even against a phalanx - forever.

[Swordmaster]

Pantodapoi phalangitai for president. They've been indeed a hugely reliable unit, despite costing only 300-ish in upkeep. Plus, enormous AOR. If you can recruit them with one or two experience, you shouldn't bother recruiting Kleruchoi or Pezhetairoi (except for role-playing purposes) at all. The only negative thing I've noticed is that a head-on charge by heavy cavalry (kataphraktoi or hetairoi) can really throw the entire phalanx in chaos, which you won't have as easily with higher-ranking phalanx units. Of course, once the phalanx breaks, these levies are rubbish, and will run quickly.

Other units I think about now are:


Botroas

Playing a Celtic faction, these guys can save your kingdom. In the range of 300 mnai upkeep, they can get their strength from numbers. IIRC, the Bataroas aren't very different.


Iberian caetratii

For those playing in the western portions of the map, recruit these guys. They will eat up heavy infantry like you never thought was possible, as long as you don't have them outnumbered or surrounded.

[konny]

Cheap and flexible.



Even without missles, I found this one the best light cavalry for their price.



Kartvelebi Dashna-Mebrdzolebi (Georgian Swordsmen), just in case you don't know them. They are very early available what makes them the backbone of the early Armenian army.



Often underrated, but their high defense skill can make them a killer of enemy light infantry.



Clona Gosnasio (Northern Iberian Skirmisher) are an awesome unit to back up slingers and archers. When those have spent their missles, they might act as skirmishers or even light infantry.

[QuintusSertorius]

Illyrian Hippeis are brilliant. They can shock charge again and again with those AP lances of theirs. Provided they're not alone, their axes are even good at taking out well-armoured cavalry.

[burn_again]

In my Sweboz and Aedui campaigns I use the baltic archers to great effect. They have 80 men, good range and you can use them as reserve spearmen if needed.

[Dutchhoplite]

Not the best troops but they surprised me when they defeated an attack from the Carthaginians:

[Tyrfingr]

Velites and Illyrian Cavalry, you got to worship them otherwise the velites will pepper you with javelins, charge your lines, hold you down until the Illyrians sneak up behind your backs and stick those AP-lances where the sun don't shine.

Illyrian coastal leavies are great too...

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Skutjanz



They aren't that bad as archers, and once done with archering, they can plug gaps in your line with their spears, which can save the day for you. That many of them will die is rather unimportant since they are so cheap to replace.


Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi



I think they are just great. They are fast, can hurl their javelins a really long distance and are, most of all, apart-rippers of such godlike units like Thorakitai Argyraspides. You only have to keep them out of missile fire.

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm not sure assault troops, who are by their very nature pretty good, qualify as "surprisingly" so.

[Havok.]

Combine this two cheap light infantary and you'll have a superb awesome fighting force, that can deal with basicly everything !

i love them!

[Justinian II]

Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi



I think they are just great. They are fast, can hurl their javelins a really long distance and are, most of all, apart-rippers of such godlike units like Thorakitai Argyraspides. You only have to keep them out of missile fire.

I don't think I've ever seen these guys; who gets them and where?

[QuintusSertorius]

I don't think I've ever seen these guys; who gets them and where?

Makedonia and Epeiros in Pella, Tylis and Demetrias. Need a L4 factional barracks for them.

[strategos roma]

Cretan archers, they're probably the best archers in the game. Dahae riders,they cost a great deal of damage when I was playing as AS. Oh, and indo-iranian light horse. Way better than anything else in their region. Also loved the iberian light infantry, solid, reliable and cheap. Once used an army of them to crush a roman legion.

[Dumbass]

Those armoured bosphorian archers are pretty damned good. Very long range and can also act as light infantry. If you want dirt cheap brilliant archers, then those skuda guys in the steppes with red coats are the best.

[Tollheit]

Cretan archers, they're probably the best archers in the game.

Seriously, these guys outrange every other archer (except for Saka foot archers, who have lower ammo), and excel in every other discipline, to boot.
Given Xenophon's account, I would have expected a somewhat more mediocre range.

Another great archer is the Baltic Medininkas. While no match for true elite archers, he is miles above his Germanic and Celtic neighbours.

[machinor]

I like the Eastern Axemen a lot; use them quite frequently in my current Baktrian Campaign. Quite cheap and superb flankers with high stamina, javelins and axes!! And on top of that they look awsomely fierce. :D

[Rodrico Stak]

I think some of these have been mentioned before, but there's no harm in mentioning them again:


Hoplitai Haploi (Greek Levy Hoplites): These guys are great. I couldn't have done nearly so well in my Romani campaign without having them to garrison my Greek conquests (since Romans cannot be recruited there until the Marian reforms). Its especially good that they're solid fighters too, and with the phalanx mod they're even better.


Toxotai Kretikoi (Cretan Archers): 3 units of the mercenary version of these guys killed off all of the Epirote light units in a large battle I had with them as the Romani. I originally hired them thinking that they'd be just a bit better than the Toxotai I was fielding before, but their usefulness surprised me.


Milnaht (Belgae Swordsmen): Once I got access to them as the Casse I used them as regular heavy infantry. However when they defeated an entire unit of Lugoae without taking a single casualty I realized just how good they were. (Ironically they then took 1 casualty when my archers fired at the routing Lugoae )

[Dutchhoplite]

These guys were the backbone of the Seleucid armies that finally crushed the Pahlava
Not very special seperate but quite strong when put together ;)