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Thread: Surprisingly good units
Depends on. If you want a robust foot-archer unit, then the Heavy Persian archers. If you want something to kill off horse-archers with, then the Iranian archer-spearmen. If you want range, then go for Subeshi archers. If you look down south, you'll also find the Indian longbows too and they are able to deal a beating in melee.
If you want to kill off horse archers I'd still go for the Subeshi. I've seen what those guys do in a melee to Kamboja cavalry (capable medium melee cavalry) and let's just say it's not pretty. <_<
I favor the basic Persian Archers, personally. Longer range than the archer-spearmen, slightly cheaper, and available in a level 1 MIC rather than level 2. And they have a huge recruitment zone, unlike the Subeshis (who are quite good if you can get them, granted). As I've argued elsewhere, if your archers are in melee, you've screwed up. 
So I only ever use archer-spearmen in tiny second or third string armies, mostly rebel-quashing or as the garrison of a rebel-prevention fort.
Mardian archers are also quite good, though not very widespread.
So I only ever use archer-spearmen in tiny second or third string armies, mostly rebel-quashing or as the garrison of a rebel-prevention fort.Mardian archers are also quite good, though not very widespread.
They are.......a.killing machines....
all hail to the Skuda Fat Aexsdzhytae !
HAIL!
"Crap why arent those phalanxes dieing omg!"
"thats becuz ur hitting them head on with missles!"
"go gogog Skuda Fat Aexsdzhytae go hit them in da back"
"roger"
"wth why no effect.... nvm run!"
thats basicly wat happens 2 me but are quite cheap n effective HA non the less
"thats becuz ur hitting them head on with missles!"
"go gogog Skuda Fat Aexsdzhytae go hit them in da back"
"roger"
"wth why no effect.... nvm run!"
thats basicly wat happens 2 me but are quite cheap n effective HA non the less
HA aren't really a surprisingly good unit, since everyone knows human controlled HA will rape anything and everything the AI can send at you.
I love the illyrian spearmen (Illyrioi Thureophoroi), they are my most trusted auxiliary infantry!
(wearing funny helmets too)
(wearing funny helmets too)
Well it appears that the Indians will be out of reach, since the Baktrians have an army moving to take that Coastal Indian settlement and my sea expedition hasnt even left Charax yet.
And I cant get to Subeshi Archers without routing a horde of horse archers, which would negate my need for them
And I cant get to Subeshi Archers without routing a horde of horse archers, which would negate my need for them
Originally Posted by Fondor_Yards:
HA aren't really a surprisingly good unit, since everyone knows human controlled HA will rape anything and everything the AI can send at you.
indeed that is true HA aren't really a surprisingly good unit, since everyone knows human controlled HA will rape anything and everything the AI can send at you.
Indian Longbowmen. Utterly FANTASTIC garrison force. long range bows, plus can, with relative ease, destroy any wall-bound phalangities. was assaulting Gandahara on my Baktrian campaign, and they utterly destroyed 4 phalanxes, and 2 spearmen, AND they were under heavy HA fire for the majority of the time. their losses? about 70 men. just incredible.
Another unit that i consider to be very effective when properly employed
Cheap, fast, easy to replace, can harass the enemy, can fight for a while on melee combat, enough time to you send heavier units to finish your foe off, and they're also great ambushers (Yes, i do use ambushes....a lot)
For all these units, can people please put thew names on the pics, so we know what they are. Thanks muchly!
Originally Posted by Havok.:
Another unit that i consider to be very effective when properly employed
Cheap, fast, easy to replace, can harass the enemy, can fight for a while on melee combat, enough time to you send heavier units to finish your foe off, and they're also great ambushers (Yes, i do use ambushes....a lot)
Komatai (Dacian Skirmishers)Another unit that i consider to be very effective when properly employed
Cheap, fast, easy to replace, can harass the enemy, can fight for a while on melee combat, enough time to you send heavier units to finish your foe off, and they're also great ambushers (Yes, i do use ambushes....a lot)
''The Komatai, also called 'daoi' or 'wolves,' make up the bulk of the tribal forces of the Getai. Untamed warriors, they are still capable of versatile maneuvers on the battlefield. They fight bare-headed to assure the gods of their fervor and willingness to arrive at their side. The Komatai go to battle wearing studded leather armor, baggy trousers and a large oval shield. They also carry with them javelins and a sica. They are best used as skirmishers for hit-and-run tactics and can be deadly in forests. If forced into melee they can hold their own against other light and even some medium infantry.''
I really hate Peltastai, they can't hold their own in melee at all. Hoplitai Haploi though, that's another question. They guys are dirt cheap and can hold a defensive line and wear down much superior enemies for ages.
Originally Posted by Dumbass:
I really hate Peltastai, they can't hold their own in melee at all.
I really do have to wonder what you're doing with them. Sure you can't put them in the centre of a line, but I find them every bit as durable as (Polybian) hastati or Bruttian infantry.I really hate Peltastai, they can't hold their own in melee at all.
Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius:
I really do have to wonder what you're doing with them. Sure you can't put them in the centre of a line, but I find them every bit as durable as (Polybian) hastati or Bruttian infantry.
I really do have to wonder what you're doing with them. Sure you can't put them in the centre of a line, but I find them every bit as durable as (Polybian) hastati or Bruttian infantry.
then my peltestai hate me... (as much as I dislike them) honestly I have waaaay better experiences using roman leves, today they lasted nearly as much as my polybian hastati and they were in the middle of the battle line fighting against phalanxes
I had a silver chevron unit of peltastai in iberia which was fighting one on one with some scortmavelue. They really quickly got torn apart with the iberians left with a lot of their unit intact. Also considering that my general was 9 command and 10 influence, they would have had +9 attack/defense bonuses.
General's command stars add to morale and defense. Not attack.
Originally Posted by ||Lz3||:
then my peltestai hate me... (as much as I dislike them) honestly I have waaaay better experiences using roman leves, today they lasted nearly as much as my polybian hastati and they were in the middle of the battle line fighting against phalanxes
Make sure also to take them off skirmish mode. I find that helps a bit. And make sure they're close together, not spaced rediculously far apart. I have pretty good results with them that way,and I try to keep two in each of my field armies. They're basically jack-of-all-trades, for me.then my peltestai hate me... (as much as I dislike them) honestly I have waaaay better experiences using roman leves, today they lasted nearly as much as my polybian hastati and they were in the middle of the battle line fighting against phalanxes
peltasts are the ultimate grunt infrantry of the ancient world. If you're failing with them, that means you're not using them properly. I have 4 units of them with 6 exp in my army, standing next to my galatian kolurochoi on the right of my phalanxes, they can pretty much rip anything...ANYTHING apart. They gain exp pretty fast too, and they're easily found in pretty much every settlement, merge them after every 2 battles or so and u'll see the chevs stack up.
I bet you, an "imitation legion" made up of peltasts and thorakitai will pwn a polybian legion hands down.
I bet you, an "imitation legion" made up of peltasts and thorakitai will pwn a polybian legion hands down.
Originally Posted by satalexton:
I bet you, an "imitation legion" made up of peltasts and thorakitai will pwn a polybian legion hands down.
Betting on that isn't that much, you know, i'm pretty sure everyone in here knows how petalsts can be deadly if properly used, specially a legion of themI bet you, an "imitation legion" made up of peltasts and thorakitai will pwn a polybian legion hands down.
So if they cannot take on an average enemy one to one without taking huge losses, how else are to meant to use them? Back up with normal units? Hardly makes them killing machines does it. They are only good for use in the second line so that they can pepper the enemy with shitloads of javelins, since they carry 6.
I'll crush your peltestai with my recently added polybian italic allies! 
perhaps I'll try them again... but seriously...I think I have better allies for my roman armies , the lucanian are awesome btw
perhaps I'll try them again... but seriously...I think I have better allies for my roman armies , the lucanian are awesome btw
Originally Posted by Dumbass:
So if they cannot take on an average enemy one to one without taking huge losses, how else are to meant to use them? Back up with normal units? Hardly makes them killing machines does it. They are only good for use in the second line so that they can pepper the enemy with shitloads of javelins, since they carry 6.
It's not rocket science. Skirmish mode to begin with while they fight ahead of your line and pelt the enemy with javelins. When they're out of ammo, you bring them back behind your line and walk them to one wing or the other. Then march them around the engaged enemy and let them have at the flanks and rear. When the enemy rout, they'll still have energy enough to chase them down.So if they cannot take on an average enemy one to one without taking huge losses, how else are to meant to use them? Back up with normal units? Hardly makes them killing machines does it. They are only good for use in the second line so that they can pepper the enemy with shitloads of javelins, since they carry 6.
They have stats equal to most medium infantry, especially if you get them into a smithy and a chevron or two of experience on them. They also fight at the right density to hold enemy line troops too.
Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius:
It's not rocket science. Skirmish mode to begin with while they fight ahead of your line and pelt the enemy with javelins. When they're out of ammo, you bring them back behind your line and walk them to one wing or the other. Then march them around the engaged enemy and let them have at the flanks and rear. When the enemy rout, they'll still have energy enough to chase them down.
They have stats equal to most medium infantry, especially if you get them into a smithy and a chevron or two of experience on them. They also fight at the right density to hold enemy line troops too.
and the killing rate of their javelins is a true battle-winner, even against overwhelming oddsIt's not rocket science. Skirmish mode to begin with while they fight ahead of your line and pelt the enemy with javelins. When they're out of ammo, you bring them back behind your line and walk them to one wing or the other. Then march them around the engaged enemy and let them have at the flanks and rear. When the enemy rout, they'll still have energy enough to chase them down.
They have stats equal to most medium infantry, especially if you get them into a smithy and a chevron or two of experience on them. They also fight at the right density to hold enemy line troops too.
I had a go with vanilla RTW yesterday, just to see how it did. I gave up when my Mercenary Peltasts Threew over 15 Javs, and still had more to throw.
Originally Posted by Che Roriniho:
I had a go with vanilla RTW yesterday, just to see how it did. I gave up when my Mercenary Peltasts Threew over 15 Javs, and still had more to throw.
Maybe they had an invisible camel train bringing them extra javelins? I had a go with vanilla RTW yesterday, just to see how it did. I gave up when my Mercenary Peltasts Threew over 15 Javs, and still had more to throw.
Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius:
It's not rocket science. Skirmish mode to begin with while they fight ahead of your line and pelt the enemy with javelins. When they're out of ammo, you bring them back behind your line and walk them to one wing or the other. Then march them around the engaged enemy and let them have at the flanks and rear. When the enemy rout, they'll still have energy enough to chase them down.
They have stats equal to most medium infantry, especially if you get them into a smithy and a chevron or two of experience on them. They also fight at the right density to hold enemy line troops too.
This is the perfect way to use them, and peltasts can be hellishly effective closing in on the flanks/rear of unarmored enemies. Those guys saved the day for me quite a few times in my recently fun but doomed (thanks to the awesome Alex.exe) Koinon Hellenon campaign.It's not rocket science. Skirmish mode to begin with while they fight ahead of your line and pelt the enemy with javelins. When they're out of ammo, you bring them back behind your line and walk them to one wing or the other. Then march them around the engaged enemy and let them have at the flanks and rear. When the enemy rout, they'll still have energy enough to chase them down.
They have stats equal to most medium infantry, especially if you get them into a smithy and a chevron or two of experience on them. They also fight at the right density to hold enemy line troops too.
Peltastai has been quite a suprise for me, I considered them not worth the trouble for quite a while. I was wrong.
Another positibe suprise was the Illyrian cavalry. Very cheap, but with those axes they have been amasing flankers and even better at taking care of those hetairoi bodyguards.
Another positibe suprise was the Illyrian cavalry. Very cheap, but with those axes they have been amasing flankers and even better at taking care of those hetairoi bodyguards.
Originally Posted by Faramir D'Andunie:
Peltastai has been quite a suprise for me, I considered them not worth the trouble for quite a while. I was wrong.
Another positibe suprise was the Illyrian cavalry. Very cheap, but with those axes they have been amasing flankers and even better at taking care of those hetairoi bodyguards.
Yep, with AP lances Illyrians are also brilliant at the shock charge into engaged (and tired) enemy infantry.Peltastai has been quite a suprise for me, I considered them not worth the trouble for quite a while. I was wrong.
Another positibe suprise was the Illyrian cavalry. Very cheap, but with those axes they have been amasing flankers and even better at taking care of those hetairoi bodyguards.
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